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Old 09-19-2007, 06:45 AM   #31
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So now the LiPo racers are whining because their cars are all of a sudden at a DISADVANTAGE to the NiMH cars?

I thought you lot all though LiPo was the second coming?

Sorry, but we have a weight limit of 1500gms for TC's with a nominal 7.2V power supply. LiPo is a nominal 7.4V so if anything you should have an advantage running at the same weight.

Or perhaps it is time for LiPO runners to admit that NiMH are still the BETTER power source for electric racers? A good pack of IB or EP at 1500gms will beat all the LiPo packs on the market right now at the same weight.
Just so you are aware, this thread was pretty civil until you showed up. 'Nuff said.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:48 AM   #32
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Just so you are aware, this thread was pretty civil until you showed up. 'Nuff said.

you asked for that Sosidge
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:50 AM   #33
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My dear friend, this post proves you know nothing about how battery voltage actually works. So perhaps you should stop "adding" to the debate and starting dumbass threads.

If you can find me a 6-cell pack that will give 9.6V UNDER RACING LOADS I will pay you 1 MILLION DOLLARS :dr evil:
And this proves what exactly? That in stock and 19T the NiMH still outperforms under load?

I haven't seen any whining here myself. The only reason the advantage that NiMH has was brought up was to disprove a common argument against running lipo in the same class.

So what's YOUR issue against running lipo with NiMH?
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:55 AM   #34
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The weight limit has always been there and for good reason. Lipo is just another form of power source but that doesn't make your car excempt from being at a weight limit.

This is the best post in this whole thread. I run lipo and have no issue with running at the legal weight. The main reason I run Lipo is because of the ease of maintenance, not because it has more or less power.
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Old 09-19-2007, 06:57 AM   #35
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So now the LiPo racers are whining because their cars are all of a sudden at a DISADVANTAGE to the NiMH cars?

I thought you lot all though LiPo was the second coming?

Sorry, but we have a weight limit of 1500gms for TC's with a nominal 7.2V power supply. LiPo is a nominal 7.4V so if anything you should have an advantage running at the same weight.

Or perhaps it is time for LiPO runners to admit that NiMH are still the BETTER power source for electric racers? A good pack of IB or EP at 1500gms will beat all the LiPo packs on the market right now at the same weight.
First I think you meant faster not better. I feel lack of battery juggling, longer lifespan, and the fact that lipo is safer (more stable) make lipo better. I dont think anyone ever claimed they were faster. Reps from Orion even said nimh would be faster in stock and 19T and lipo faster in mod. There was no debate there. As for weight, it is what it is. If you run lipo then recognize you will be at a disadvantage in speed. If we lower it then lipos will be faster and less likely to break which swings it too far the other way. Perhaps the fact that lipo allows you to work on your setup for longer, etc makes it more even in the end.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:18 AM   #36
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Weight shouldn't be the issue. Every racer in every class of "real racing" by that I mean 1:1 cars. (not that RC isn't real) They all have weight limits. This is where you have to put a little thought into your car. Don't just strap the weight into the car wherever you have open space. Experiment with putting the weight where you can use it. Adding weight can actually improve traction and handling if put in the right place.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:19 AM   #37
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So what's YOUR issue against running lipo with NiMH?
None whatsoever. If you have a lipo and the lead to run at the same weight as me I will take anyone on and have no complaints!

However it makes me laugh when all the LiPo fanboys get a shock and realise that the new chemistry is not the answer to everything.

Just like all things in racing LiPo (if accepted into mainstream racing, personally I'm not sure it will ever be the racers cell of choice) will be just the same as NiMH, NiCd has been. You will have the cell of the month, premium matched cells, super-tech charging methods, claim and counter claim, and a little bit of black magic and superstition thrown in for good measure too!

LiPo may be more durable now. However as the contruction is pushed to get more performance I guarantee it becomes less durable.

I don't think it is safer, but I also don't think it is unsafe either if used correctly.

So lets have both types of cells in the hobby but lets stop the whining about whether the rules are fair - a weight limit is a weight limit - and lets stop the crazy claims about whether one is better than the other - different strokes for different folks.

Personally speaking I doubt there will ever be a LiPo in my battery box. But perhaps time will prove me wrong, if so I'll take it on the chin like a man!
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:27 AM   #38
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I dont see a topic here really.

lf it wasnt 1500 with lipo then they would have their own class... thus splitting the racers even more.

Is that such a good idea? At least the current reg's are sensible and still trying to keep the groups in order.

You already have stock/19 and mod classes, and even brushless in some places no doubt. So.... a lipo class too... Nah, I dont think thats wise, we've diluted the racing enough as it is...

What other suggestions are there apart from being an equal weight to the other cars or making a seperate class????

Just trying to be logical.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:28 AM   #39
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sosidge you also probably think rc car racing is a sport and not a hobby. Ive found those willing to accept lipos are the ones having fun at the track and view it as a hobby. Nothing wrong with your view of nimh (and racing if Im correct). If you what to be THAT guy at the track.

I like that lipo is slower. It makes nimh fanboys like sosidge fine with their use.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:31 AM   #40
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However it makes me laugh when all the LiPo fanboys get a shock and realise that the new chemistry is not the answer to everything.
I'll just leave it as this - you are probably reading what people who don't run lipo say about it when they whine about how unfair it is. We've been discussing these exact topics for months now. We know lipos lacks yet we are still perfectly happy running at a disadvantage. We'll even make weight.

It's great that you would not argue against running with lipo cars. Feel free to mock us for having a voltage disadvantage and we'll feel free to mock you over your battery slaving - deal?
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:40 AM   #41
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My dear friend, this post proves you know nothing about how battery voltage actually works. So perhaps you should stop "adding" to the debate and starting dumbass threads.

If you can find me a 6-cell pack that will give 9.6V UNDER RACING LOADS I will pay you 1 MILLION DOLLARS :dr evil:
Sosidge, the language is quite unneccessary. I didnt start this thread. And, I said peak voltage, notice, I said "peak starting charge".....meaning what the charger reads after the pack has been "stuffed" with volts. I never said this is what it carried throughout the course of the race, BUT what the pack starts at and how it begins to trail off under load. Your condenscending tone isnt warranted. And for the record, I know PLENTY about electricty...I used to be a Generator Mechanic.....so move on to another victim, thanks.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:40 AM   #42
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The weight limit has always been there and for good reason. Lipo is just another form of power source but that doesn't make your car excempt from being at a weight limit.
Francis- we know...no one is trying to say there shouldnt be weight limit...quite the opposite. The pblm is a weight limit that is fair and takes into account todays power sources and newer and lighter cars and batteries. For example, in 2006 we saw 4 and 5 cells becoming the new thing in the world of RC. Imagine running 4 cells or 5 cells at the old 1525g weight limit? Of course that slows the car down and just creates more stress on the car and electronics...why do you think they changed the weight limit of 4 cell to around 1350g, and 5 cell to around 1425g? Well, shouldn't the same apply to Lipo equiped cars? Lipo packs are much easier to maintain and they are as light as 4 cell nimh packs(some times even lighter depending on pack capacity)...however, they still out out 7.4V- so against 4 cell nimh packs at the same weight limit, the Lipo will be much faster. Against a 5 cell nimh car at the 5 cell weight limit, they are very close- but against a 6 cell nimh car at the 6 cell 1525g weight limit, the 6 cell nimh has the advantage. But it gets worse, due to the fact that the nimh battery war produces new bigger and stronger cells every few months, and so the gap and advantage for those running 6 cell nimh packs will improve within a year's time...Lipo will remain at 7.4v, and keeps the playing field even for all who use them, and so makes the class much more attractive and affordable for new racers and veterans alike. Its like a 1/12 scale car racing against 1/10 TC, but the poor 1/12 scale has to run at 1525g TC weight!? Or an electric TC running at the 1725g or so nitro car weight limit...guess who will have the edge? Same thing...it just seems some people are looking the other way when it comes to this issue.

Like I stated before...5 cell nimh cars and 4 cell nimh cars have reveised their weight limit rules accordingly to compensate for the weight drop and balance out the car's performance and lower power source and weight. All I'm arguing is that maybe the same should be done for those running lipo packs alongside those running 6 cell or 5 cell nimh packs...

We already know that 5 cell nimh cars at their weight limit are faster per lap and run cooler more efficient than 6 cell nimh cars at their 1525g weight limit...isnt that one the main ideas? less power less weight, better electronics performance and better car parts durability?

All i'm saying is that we can drop the weight limit to 1450g across the board...that would help everyone. At that weight,, its similar for 5 cell nimh and lipo performance wise, and will also slow down the 6 cell nimh cars a bit so the lipo and 5 cells can keep up....suggestions welcome...

Last edited by yyhayyim; 09-19-2007 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:43 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
My dear friend, this post proves you know nothing about how battery voltage actually works. So perhaps you should stop "adding" to the debate and starting dumbass threads.

If you can find me a 6-cell pack that will give 9.6V UNDER RACING LOADS I will pay you 1 MILLION DOLLARS :dr evil:
Sos...no need to attack anyone- be civil and make your points w/o the insults...
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:46 AM   #44
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I asked this same questions some weeks ago. One of the benefits of lipos is the fact that they are ligher, but to add the weights, counters this benefit. I too, run lipo and to add weights is a pain, but as dictated to me (sometime not in the nicest way) "rules are there to even the playing field".......
Sosidge, did you happen to read this??/ If you did, maybe you wouldve looked for another "whupping boy".
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:55 AM   #45
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I ran our Florida State race this past weekend. I ran a brushless/lipo combo. We allowed lipos for the first time and we all agreeded to make weight based on current weight rules. I had no problems adding the 2 1/2 sticks of lead weight Do I think its fair? Yes...adding the weight allowed me to balance the car by moving the weight forward/aft on the lipo side.
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