SMC Lipos 7.4 5000mah
10-16-2007, 11:03 AM
#497
can use in ISTC ?
10-16-2007, 11:11 AM
#498
Tech Fanatic
Danny, no offense but doesnt this prove those people that said "you were just saying they were better", right? I assume you just recently ran that test based on the timing of this post so that would lead me to believe when you released the cells you hadnt done such a test? Its great to see that the data supports the claims but I just question the timing of the test.
10-16-2007, 11:11 AM
#499
I did allot of testing on various Lipo packs before we released ours which took a few samples to get things exactly how we wanted. As we have a very good relationship with Competition Electronics I got a prototype Lipo GFX to do my testing many months ago. So to answer your question I did test packs before we released and claimed our pack was better. I decided to do this most recent test on a brand new SMC production pack versus a band new Orion pack to get an accurate test.
We also have some test results from our manufacturer under the specified C rates which shows that many packs on the market aren't really the C rate specified but my goal is not to attack any company but it's to show that are pack have high average voltage and low IR which equates to more power.
Maybe the Lipo racers are different than others but my experience has been when something is used in racing racers want the best possible packs to go as fast as possible.
You guys can keep having fun by trying to argue with everything I say but bottom line SMC is comitted to offering the best possible Lipo to the RC racers and we will continue to improve and try to stay ahead of the competition.
We also have some test results from our manufacturer under the specified C rates which shows that many packs on the market aren't really the C rate specified but my goal is not to attack any company but it's to show that are pack have high average voltage and low IR which equates to more power.
Maybe the Lipo racers are different than others but my experience has been when something is used in racing racers want the best possible packs to go as fast as possible.
You guys can keep having fun by trying to argue with everything I say but bottom line SMC is comitted to offering the best possible Lipo to the RC racers and we will continue to improve and try to stay ahead of the competition.
10-16-2007, 11:14 AM
#500
Here is part of an email I got from a racer who has been using our pack.
I got the 5000mah lipo pack from john, and that thing is awesome. It has amazing voltage, feels like at least a couple tenths of a volt better than the orion pacl. The only thing that I am having an issue is with my tc5, it is hard to fit it in because I have to tape the batteries in the car, and being setup like a stick pack I have a really hard time getting it to tape into the car. SoI have been running it in my tc4 where is fits like a glove. I am a big fan of the battery, but if you really wanted it the best possible I would set it up in a hard case that had a ridge to fit in battery slots, and possibly solder tabs, that had a conector soldered to it out of the box, but could be direct soldered by the racers who set their cars up that way. Right now I am running deans plugs which I am not that big of a fan of.
What is pretty cool is that he feels the pack runs a few tenths of a volts faster than the Orion pack and if you look at my test data our pack has .19 volts more and lower IR so I guess this guy has a pretty good feeling for power.
I got the 5000mah lipo pack from john, and that thing is awesome. It has amazing voltage, feels like at least a couple tenths of a volt better than the orion pacl. The only thing that I am having an issue is with my tc5, it is hard to fit it in because I have to tape the batteries in the car, and being setup like a stick pack I have a really hard time getting it to tape into the car. SoI have been running it in my tc4 where is fits like a glove. I am a big fan of the battery, but if you really wanted it the best possible I would set it up in a hard case that had a ridge to fit in battery slots, and possibly solder tabs, that had a conector soldered to it out of the box, but could be direct soldered by the racers who set their cars up that way. Right now I am running deans plugs which I am not that big of a fan of.
What is pretty cool is that he feels the pack runs a few tenths of a volts faster than the Orion pack and if you look at my test data our pack has .19 volts more and lower IR so I guess this guy has a pretty good feeling for power.
10-16-2007, 11:31 AM
#503
I also run this pack and I am very happy with it . My local hobby shop got 2 in sold them and both TC racers love them.
I would like to see a hard shell also but I would also like the touring car world to make a car with no slots and give the lipo chassis as a option for some of us
Thanks for the great stuff SMC
keep it up
I would like to see a hard shell also but I would also like the touring car world to make a car with no slots and give the lipo chassis as a option for some of us
Thanks for the great stuff SMC
keep it up
10-16-2007, 11:54 AM
#504
A hard case version will be avaible eventually as were working on it but I don't expect it to be available for awhile.
10-16-2007, 12:05 PM
#505
Actually, we HAD done the testing. Many times and with many other brands of LiPos. However, it was with the sample packs we had from our supplier, not production packs. We wanted to be certain that the packs the consumers bought were, indeed, as good as the pre-production samples we tested. The good news about this test is that we tested 6 of our packs to gauge the variance in performance and much to our surprise, the numbers on all 6 were virtually identical.
10-16-2007, 01:30 PM
#506
The Orion packs have are known to have lower voltage compared to others. This appears to be a function of safer chemistry, and perhaps the excellent cycle life. That is to say, 100 or 200 cycles in to the Orion pack, its numbers will be very close to when it was new. The same is often not true for other cells, though I can't speak for SMC's without doing or seeing actual testing.
My point, I suppose, is that looking forward, if LiPo becomes the norm, we may see people buying batteries for two different needs. For the crowd that needs every bit of voltage, we'll likely see people using the hottest, 10 cycle cells they can find. For people that race in classes where voltage means less, you might see them lean toward batteries that hold their numbers into the hundreds if not thousands of cycles.
This isn't a comment on SMC's batteries, per se, but just where it looks like things are heading. Matchers have always dealt in voltage and run time, and not so much in longevity. I would expect them to carry this over into LiPo, as it's their business, and if they can't squeeze more voltage from one cell than the next, then they don't have much of a purpose. Of course these guys are looking for batteries with higher numbers, and of course they want to try and divide the market and create value in more voltage. That is the market.
Some people will buy fast 10 run packs, and others will buy almost as fast 500 run packs. The NiMH die-hards you see in this forum and elsewhere saying LiPo won't change much are probably right, to an extent. It won't change much for them, because they're always going to worship the volt. It's unfortunate, because that mentality seems to be a contributing factor to the decline of on-road racing. For others, especially where they've got more power than traction, it won't make nearly as much sense to spend extra on hotter batteries.
The one glimmer of hope is that we haven't seen much talk about variations in batteries of the same type. Like, from one Kokam cell to the next. It seems like they're pretty close, though time will tell. If it ends up being a small margin between cells, to the point where it doesn't make much sense to pay for the better ones, you could make a decent case for going to spec batteries for racing, and avoid the next great battery war that's looming on the horizon. There's WAY more companies making LiPo than there ever was with NiMH, and leaving it wide open could create a mess way worse than anything we've seen yet. Hopefully, as LiPo racing matures, we'll see rules in place limiting the cells we can run, for the sake of safety, and keeping racing from becoming an even bigger wallet war.
My point, I suppose, is that looking forward, if LiPo becomes the norm, we may see people buying batteries for two different needs. For the crowd that needs every bit of voltage, we'll likely see people using the hottest, 10 cycle cells they can find. For people that race in classes where voltage means less, you might see them lean toward batteries that hold their numbers into the hundreds if not thousands of cycles.
This isn't a comment on SMC's batteries, per se, but just where it looks like things are heading. Matchers have always dealt in voltage and run time, and not so much in longevity. I would expect them to carry this over into LiPo, as it's their business, and if they can't squeeze more voltage from one cell than the next, then they don't have much of a purpose. Of course these guys are looking for batteries with higher numbers, and of course they want to try and divide the market and create value in more voltage. That is the market.
Some people will buy fast 10 run packs, and others will buy almost as fast 500 run packs. The NiMH die-hards you see in this forum and elsewhere saying LiPo won't change much are probably right, to an extent. It won't change much for them, because they're always going to worship the volt. It's unfortunate, because that mentality seems to be a contributing factor to the decline of on-road racing. For others, especially where they've got more power than traction, it won't make nearly as much sense to spend extra on hotter batteries.
The one glimmer of hope is that we haven't seen much talk about variations in batteries of the same type. Like, from one Kokam cell to the next. It seems like they're pretty close, though time will tell. If it ends up being a small margin between cells, to the point where it doesn't make much sense to pay for the better ones, you could make a decent case for going to spec batteries for racing, and avoid the next great battery war that's looming on the horizon. There's WAY more companies making LiPo than there ever was with NiMH, and leaving it wide open could create a mess way worse than anything we've seen yet. Hopefully, as LiPo racing matures, we'll see rules in place limiting the cells we can run, for the sake of safety, and keeping racing from becoming an even bigger wallet war.
10-16-2007, 01:52 PM
#507
SyndrOme so your saying that the Orion pack has less performance because it has a safer chemistry ? Can you prove that there chemistry is any safer than ours ?
If you look on page 14 I posted info from our supplier concerning the Kokam claims on sfatey and life expectancy.
I'm no expert on Lipos but my research combined with what we have been told by our supplier is that the reason why some lipos are better than others is because of quality of the materials used, the C rate and the way the pack is built. It has nothing to do with saftey or life expectancy. Since our pack is a 22C it should hold up better over time than a lower C rate pack as the pack will not be used at it's intended C rate thus it will encounter less stress.
You do bring some valuable points about the evolution of Lipos but bottom line evolution is part of any industry and in the RC racing industry where motors , chassis , tires and other parts are always changing I really don't see why batteries shouldn't improve or change as well.
If you look on page 14 I posted info from our supplier concerning the Kokam claims on sfatey and life expectancy.
I'm no expert on Lipos but my research combined with what we have been told by our supplier is that the reason why some lipos are better than others is because of quality of the materials used, the C rate and the way the pack is built. It has nothing to do with saftey or life expectancy. Since our pack is a 22C it should hold up better over time than a lower C rate pack as the pack will not be used at it's intended C rate thus it will encounter less stress.
You do bring some valuable points about the evolution of Lipos but bottom line evolution is part of any industry and in the RC racing industry where motors , chassis , tires and other parts are always changing I really don't see why batteries shouldn't improve or change as well.
10-16-2007, 01:55 PM
#508
