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Old 09-19-2007, 01:36 PM   #106
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But at the same time there is always something newer, faster, and more runtime.
Not everybody values those things the most, though. There are many other factors which matter. Safer, better cycle life, safe 2C charging, more convenient shapes/weights, etc. are what many people value.

"Newer, faster and more runtime" is a NiMH thing, and not where LiPo really shines. Sadly, that's probably where the racing crowd will take things, thus repeating history.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:37 PM   #107
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A couple points here that need clarified:
The decision to not release these with a hard case is not based on economics. The plastic case only adds pennies to the cost- not dollars. So quit trying to imply that we skimped on quality. Like I said, when everyone running these is putting you laps down you will change your bitter tune.
Second. It has only been a few years ago (my how soon we forget) that a certain large battery matcher said they "wouldn't be caught dead running" those cheap CHINESE GP cells "unless they were in a NASA protective suit". Funny at the time, huh? Pretty stupid now. So much for Sanyo and Panasonic.

Some of you all need to wake up. Creating a competitve balance in racing is fine for the spec classes, but when companies like SMC who are used to pushing the envelope get involved, we are not content to just come out with a product for the hell of it. We are out to have the fastest battery on the market. (Before anyone starts flaming, it goes without saying that the product will be safe and reliable). We have a reputation to protect just like our competitors. We aren't just "some company" that happens to be coming out with LIPo's. We deserve more respect than that.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:37 PM   #108
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I don't want Lipo at all, but I would think that if there is such a serious push to have them Roar legal you'd at least want them to be rated like a NIMH. Extra voltage is going to cause a huge problem.


Enjoy bashing me everyone.
No need to bash. If this is new to you, there are so many discussions that you've never even looked at that I am surprised you popped your head in here.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:39 PM   #109
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Not everybody values those things the most, though. There are many other factors which matter. Safer, better cycle life, safe 2C charging, more convenient shapes/weights, etc. are what many people value.

"Newer, faster and more runtime" is a NiMH thing, and not where LiPo really shines. Sadly, that's probably where the racing crowd will take things, thus repeating history.
Definately two crowds of people. Those that enjoy racing people in a "spec" type class (everyone running Orion) and those that want to win at all cost so they push technology to be faster. I think many of the early adopters of lipo and brushless fall into that first category of people. I want to know I lost because I didnt drive as well. Not because my lipo is 20C vs 22C.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:40 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
A battery with a plastic case will always be better than the same battery without.

You should embrace the plastic case as it is this one thing that has made tracks take notice and allow LiPo in the first place. Push for caseless packs and watch LiPo get pushed two steps backward.
I bet if you think back real hard you remember the plastic cases on the nicd batteries. how can you same something that is heavier is better, you can't it has it's advantages and disadvantages. The weight is not something that I want in my car I will take my chances.

Aren't you the founder of peak, who competes with smc and sell a hard pack.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:42 PM   #111
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Definately two crowds of people. Those that enjoy racing people in a "spec" type class (everyone running Orion) and those that want to win at all cost so they push technology to be faster. I think many of the early adopters of lipo and brushless fall into that first category of people. I want to know I lost because I didnt drive as well. Not because my lipo is 20C vs 22C.
My only question is.....is your pack "REALLY" 20C? I'm willing to bet money that the SMC really is 22C.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:42 PM   #112
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wath is the cell on smc pack

only oem made in china and cost 30$ + ship in 1000qty and he sell it at 150$

if the cell is vislero cell you have very bad lipo who inflate when you put it in 4wd car and lost 1000mah after 30 cycle

i torture yuntong cell for 10 cycle charge 2C 8.5V and discharge to 4V 60amp

and i exchange my vislero for it
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:44 PM   #113
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when everyone running these is putting you laps down you will change your bitter tune.
Laps down? As in more then 1 lap? Just by switching to these? Sign me up if thats the case
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:44 PM   #114
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I bet if you think back real hard you remember the plastic cases on the nicd batteries. how can you same something that is heavier is better, you can't it has it's advantages and disadvantages. The weight is not something that I want in my car I will take my chances.
Didn't we already establish that NiMH is in a hard can, and LiPo in a soft bag, and that alone is reason enough to consider the need for a case differently between the two?

And the weight thing, really? How much heavier is a case than a bunch of shrink with external wires/balancing connectors, if at all? Plus, you do know that LiPo is too light to begin with, right?

C'mon man, lets keep it sensible here.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:44 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by ironxxx4 View Post
wath is the cell on smc pack

only oem made in china and cost 30$ + ship in 1000qty and he sell it at 150$

if the cell is vislero cell you have very bad lipo who inflate when you put it in 4wd car and lost 1000mah after 30 cycle

i torture yuntong cell for 10 cycle charge 2C 8.5V and discharge to 4V 60amp

and i exchange my vislero for it
Quit trolling, you are doing nothing but ruining your companies appearance around here.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:46 PM   #116
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My only question is.....is your pack "REALLY" 20C? I'm willing to bet money that the SMC really is 22C.
Actually I dont care. I know my packs are fast enough to beat the people I should beat. Ive read posts by people smarter then me on lipo technology that the C rating isnt really a good indicator.

If 22C makes me laps faster what is the Orion 25C that Orion announced last week going to do?

Last edited by or8ital; 09-19-2007 at 01:48 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:48 PM   #117
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Not everybody values those things the most, though. There are many other factors which matter. Safer, better cycle life, safe 2C charging, more convenient shapes/weights, etc. are what many people value.

"Newer, faster and more runtime" is a NiMH thing, and not where LiPo really shines. Sadly, that's probably where the racing crowd will take things, thus repeating history.
No, "Newer, faster, and more runtime" is a BATTERY thing. It was with NiCads, it was with NiMh, and it is with LiPo's. It's called technology.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:48 PM   #118
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wath is the cell on smc pack

only oem made in china and cost 30$ + ship in 1000qty and he sell it at 150$
That's another reason we as consumers are wary of companies that don't disclose the source of their cells. I'm not saying that's why they do it, but it certainly crosses one's mind.

It's no secret that wholesale Kokam cells are quite a bit more expensive than the Chinese variety, but nobody seems willing to admit this. They all think they're getting the greatest deal of the century because they got a LiPo for cheaper.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:50 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by ironxxx4 View Post
wath is the cell on smc pack

only oem made in china and cost 30$ + ship in 1000qty and he sell it at 150$

if the cell is vislero cell you have very bad lipo who inflate when you put it in 4wd car and lost 1000mah after 30 cycle

i torture yuntong cell for 10 cycle charge 2C 8.5V and discharge to 4V 60amp

and i exchange my vislero for it
What are you talking about?
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:51 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by bigemike View Post
I bet if you think back real hard you remember the plastic cases on the nicd batteries. how can you same something that is heavier is better, you can't it has it's advantages and disadvantages. The weight is not something that I want in my car I will take my chances.

Aren't you the founder of peak, who competes with smc and sell a hard pack.
I used to but now work for Reedy. Although I do consider myself the "father" of the hard case LiPo battery for R/C cars as it was my ideas and concept that made its way to the market.

Anyway, If you are afraid of weight you are a little misinformed. If you were to use a Lipo (any) in Touring cars, you would find that you would have to add between at least 3 -4 ounces to make the minimum weight. And the weight should be added to the battery. Actually a case made of lead instead of plastic would be most desirable.

In off-road cars, weight distribution changes so much with LiPo that even though the cars meet the minimum weight, weight is added to retain the cars optimum balance and improve handling.

LiPo does have a tremendous advantage in that for a given capacity, it weights much less. But with today's car designs the advantage is non-existant. It is LiPo's other qualities that make it desirable.

BTW I have raced since 1982 and never used a NiCd/NiMH battery with a plastic case.
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