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Old 09-19-2007, 09:25 AM   #46
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Hopefully this idea wont get stolen and someone makes millions off it but what would be cool is if some standard size plastic case was created (and shared) that could snap into the car (similar to how you snap laptop, cellphone batteries in). Then your ESC could plug into the car (which had contact for the battery). No more battery tape, all batteries fit, etc. It will never happen but seems like it would be cool.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:29 AM   #47
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Default hard cased lipo's

Good to hear that other companies have the hard cases (I knew about trakpower.) I will stick with orion/peak as long as they continue to show innovation in design and safety.

SMC- nobody on this thread said that uncased cells were chinese junk. The SMC name implies that the cells are good. This is simply a discussion of why the cells are not encased?
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:30 AM   #48
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In the "real world" applications (not r/c), lipos and li-ons are always encased in plastic cases, or they are permanently in devices where they are surrounded and protected by plastic, metal, etc.

All sub c cells have a steel tube that protects the battery, so saying an exposed lipo is the same as an "exposed" 4200 pack is just silly.

The point is simple, smc says that the decision was made months ago to go with no case. The orion packs have been out for close to 2 years. This is just a case of a matcher (smc,) buying built packs from a factory, and then defending their product.

Quick question: If the smc lipo pack is $150 (lets say $120 at discount) and the pack is dented, will smc replace it, or will the racer simply toss the pack and buy a new one? What if the packs is ejected from the car and scrapes along the ground?

Lipo packs are currently running 2-3 times the cost of nimh, so running an experiment that says-> try our packs for $120 doesn't make much sense does it.

Even though orion has a patent on the hard case, you could probably modify the case slightly and use it without a patent infringement (how about not using the banana sockets?). But that would require an investment and it is much easier to simply slap your company logo on a product and sell it for $30 more than the maxamps pack of equal capacity.

Orion has the best idea for LIPO packs, and the only criticism I have ever heard about it is the 3200 doesn't have enough capacity. Hopefully orion will rectify that shortly.

To SMC, maxamps, and all the others (except orion/peak)-> design a hard shell that will cost you $1-$2 dollars per pack and stop defending exposed LIPO cells.

Using LIPO's in a chassis where the pack is down the middle and fully protected is completely different from running lipo in a chassis where the pack is 3mm from the edge. My argument is not only about safety from fire, but also safety from having to replace a $120 pack after a crash.
No one is "defending" exposed cells. I am simply stating the rationale behind our decisions. We didn't just slap a sticker on these packs and say "let's sell LiPo's". A lot of testing went into choosing a manufacturer that we felt could produce a battery up to the standards we were looking for.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:33 AM   #49
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This just highlights that its going to be very difficult for anyone to compete with Orion in lipo. They provide full disclosure of who makes them, where they are made, powerpoints with all the safety data. Heck they have even taken questions from this forum and gone back to Kokam to gather the data. They have definately set the bar high.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Hopefully this idea wont get stolen and someone makes millions off it but what would be cool is if some standard size plastic case was created (and shared) that could snap into the car (similar to how you snap laptop, cellphone batteries in). Then your ESC could plug into the car (which had contact for the battery). No more battery tape, all batteries fit, etc. It will never happen but seems like it would be cool.
that would be cool
how about the car manu make a cradle of some sort that fit there own chassis but hold all the different hard cased Li-PO securley & safely , like a adjustable one to hold the different size cases in the car
then the car when released will have strap/cradle for c-cells & another on for li-po case's
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:35 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Hopefully this idea wont get stolen and someone makes millions off it but what would be cool is if some standard size plastic case was created (and shared) that could snap into the car (similar to how you snap laptop, cellphone batteries in). Then your ESC could plug into the car (which had contact for the battery). No more battery tape, all batteries fit, etc. It will never happen but seems like it would be cool.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:37 AM   #52
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I hope this doesnt blow the stickers off any car. Kinda defeats the grassroots efforts to run nimh and lipo together since they are roughly equal.
Like I have said before...be careful what you wish for guys. LiPo packs will continue to get faster and faster, just like sub-c's. Once they are embraced by the racing community, be prepared for higher performance.
We are in the business to sell the best packs we can. That is what distinguishes our product from Brand X or Brand Y.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:37 AM   #53
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Default defending exposed cells

SMC- Of course you are defending exposed cells. You released an uncased LIPO cell when you knew that many clubs around the country only allow encased lipo cells to be run. You are hoping that the these clubs will change their LIPO rules so your cells can be used and you can make a few dollars more per pack by omitting the case.

Like most r/c products, you are hoping that performance (voltage and discharge) will sell over safety and longevity. (If the pack is dented or damaged in a crash.)

As for safety, do you have the hard evidence like kokam to back up the safety claims of the cells you are using?

I hope that eventually r/c racers will stop accepting r/c manufacturers claims as gospel and demand more. Maybe the solution to all this is to use 3.5 brushless motors and lipos resulting in a completely uncontrollable car that most racers will try to slow down.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:40 AM   #54
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SMC- nobody on this thread said that uncased cells were chinese junk. The SMC name implies that the cells are good. This is simply a discussion of why the cells are not encased?
It has not been said on this thread, but it has been said MANY times on other ones.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:42 AM   #55
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Like I have said before...be careful what you wish for guys. LiPo packs will continue to get faster and faster, just like sub-c's. Once they are embraced by the racing community, be prepared for higher performance.
We are in the business to sell the best packs we can. That is what distinguishes our product from Brand X or Brand Y.
No one wished for faster lipo cells. Everyone fully expects there to be improvements in the technology that happen slowly over time (similar to nimh) but if you turn a stock into a mod (blowing stickers off cars) you are killing lipo.

Just remember you are also in the business to satisfy your customers. While speed may be one of those factors you need to include safety, durability, need, etc.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:42 AM   #56
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No one is "defending" exposed cells. I am simply stating the rationale behind our decisions. We didn't just slap a sticker on these packs and say "let's sell LiPo's". A lot of testing went into choosing a manufacturer that we felt could produce a battery up to the standards we were looking for.
That's definitely appreciated. As orbital pointed out, the competition has been a lot more forthcoming with their data. It's very much why you see so much good will toward Orion. Just because we as consumers don't sell batteries doesn't mean we need to be patronized. Data and details on LiPo batteries is widespread, and not limited to industry insiders. I guess what I'm saying is that the game seems to be changed with LiPo, with some companies embracing it, while others seem content to carry on with their old ways.

I don't mean this as an insult, but rather just an observation of the market and where we're at right now. At this point with LiPo, the user base seems to be made up of many early-adopters that tend to be better informed, and not easily pacified with the "just trust us" or "just try it" approach to marketing.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:43 AM   #57
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It has not been said on this thread, but it has been said MANY times on other ones.
I think people were calling Chinese Junk well Chinese Junk. I dont think the case makes a difference in crapiness of cells. An unsafe cell is going to be unsafe regardless of what it is wrapped in. I have no idea if your cell is safe or not.

Last edited by or8ital; 09-20-2007 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:45 AM   #58
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I paid 120 something for mine at the LHS (RC Madness, CT). It was def cheaper than 150 tower has it listed for.

I actually thought this was a great price for a 5000mah pack. I paid more for my Orion 4800.

I have run the pack once and it seems great so far. I have run soft packs before in a 1/8th conversion and didn't have any problems. Granted, the pack was off the chassis quite a bit and really didn't have any means of getting smacked up.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:46 AM   #59
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Tower Hobbies has them listed already but no specs. Interesting that there are two packs. I am guessing they will be in different form factors.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTCF6&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTCF8&P=7
Part numbers ending in "D" and "T" so I'm guessing "Deans" and "Tamiya" connectors are both offered.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:47 AM   #60
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FYI also...I saw a Racer's Edge pack that was also 5000mah, but in a hard shell case like the orion's. The price on that was approx 160ish
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