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Old 10-17-2007, 07:27 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by bigemike View Post
Do you guys really give Novak or LRP this much resistance when they build a new speedo. Or do you guys just like to watch yourselves type?
I don't buy LRP and Novak has a warranty...essentially a lifetime warranty, so no.
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:50 AM   #542
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Default SMC should sponsor BigMike

Jack and Danny, Bigmike has been 100% positive about the smc lipo pack and has taken on everyone who likes to watch themselves type. I think it is time that SMC sponsor bigmike, or at least send him 1 free 5000 lipo pack.

When a user reaches a certain number of posts on rctech.net they get bumped up; I think smc should do the same thing. Lets say 40 100% positive posts while disregarding any and all even potentially negative comments or questions should equal 1 free 5000 lipo pack.

There should also be a similar plan for those of us who ask questions, give comments, and ask for data about the smc lipo pack? Lets say 80 posts with at least 50% negative content will also equal 1 free 5000 lipo pack.

On a serious note: can we agree that orion lipo's give up a little voltage for a longer lasting cell? The question is whether lipos should be marketed the same way as nimh. Will the racer pay double for a lipo with .15v more? Or will the racer pay in a pack that lasts 1/2 the life?
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:01 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
I'm not asking for a couple tenths of a volt for a few cycles, I'm asking about longevity amd cycle life. Danny says it's better than the Orion, because it's good for 50-60 cycles. That doesn't sound the same or better to me...

IIRC, Linger (the only Lipo expert on this thread...) has also said that Kokams can do a few hundred cycles with minimal degradation.
It's hard for me to believe I have to explain this to you....they were tested for 50-60 cycles- this does not mean they are ONLY good for 50-60 cycles. This is an arbitrary number. Why do you insist on trying to stir the pot when all you need to do is continue buying Orion? Obviously, there are people who have tried our packs that are very satisfied. What do you hope to accomplish by constantly playing "devil's advocate"?
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:10 AM   #544
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Just out of curiosity....

When the TV commercial airs saying that 4 out of 5 dentists prefer gum brand_x, do you send angry letters to the company demanding the name of the 4 dentists so you can independently verify which flavours they sampled?

Jack and Danny have indicated that they have researched the cells, tested various samples, continuously monitor quality with random sampling, and the reports on this very thread from people who have purchased the cells already has been glowingly positive.

Would a hardcase pack be nice? Yes...but they've also indicated that it's in the works...

Would a 'heavy' hardcase be nice? Heck ya! I'd be all over it as a practice pack as my local track does not currently allow LiPo for qualifying/racing.

Instead of the attacks, people should be happy that one of the best-known, best-respected names in the RC battery industry has added LiPo to their lineup..This can only help raise the profile of LiPo and help move towards broader acceptance.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:16 AM   #545
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Great...LOL...sounds like Maxamps "T-shirts for Fanboys" deal. I think JConcepts does it as well.

I'd really like to know what the tradeoffs are, but Danny and Jack say there aren't any. They say their stuff is the best (apparently because they're SMC?) and that they're as safe, last longer than the Orions AND have better voltage. Oh yeah...and they say they're cheaper as well...what's not to like?

Why the personal attacks? Is it just because I ask a question they don't want to answer?



Quote:
Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
Jack and Danny, Bigmike has been 100% positive about the smc lipo pack and has taken on everyone who likes to watch themselves type. I think it is time that SMC sponsor bigmike, or at least send him 1 free 5000 lipo pack.

When a user reaches a certain number of posts on rctech.net they get bumped up; I think smc should do the same thing. Lets say 40 100% positive posts while disregarding any and all even potentially negative comments or questions should equal 1 free 5000 lipo pack.

There should also be a similar plan for those of us who ask questions, give comments, and ask for data about the smc lipo pack? Lets say 80 posts with at least 50% negative content will also equal 1 free 5000 lipo pack.

On a serious note: can we agree that orion lipo's give up a little voltage for a longer lasting cell? The question is whether lipos should be marketed the same way as nimh. Will the racer pay double for a lipo with .15v more? Or will the racer pay in a pack that lasts 1/2 the life?
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:20 AM   #546
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Frankly, it's hard for me to believe that you still won't come clean about any of this.

If you're going to make claims, you should be willing to back them up. I think that everyone on here aside from you understands that there are trade-offs to be made with regards to voltage versus longevity versus safety.

The tradeoffs that Kokam has made are well-known, yet you refuse to even acknowledge where you stand on it or what compromises you've made...and whine when anyone even asks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
It's hard for me to believe I have to explain this to you....they were tested for 50-60 cycles- this does not mean they are ONLY good for 50-60 cycles. This is an arbitrary number. Why do you insist on trying to stir the pot when all you need to do is continue buying Orion? Obviously, there are people who have tried our packs that are very satisfied. What do you hope to accomplish by constantly playing "devil's advocate"?
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:39 AM   #547
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if you don't like SMC DON'T BUY IT simple as that

next question
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:48 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
I don't buy LRP and Novak has a warranty...essentially a lifetime warranty, so no.
??

Novak warranty is 120 days... and after that it gets expensive. They even charge a $5.00 handling fee on top of repair fees and return shipping. If you send in something that doesn't need repaired it would be $38 minimum to get it back thanks to their $25 "it's not broken" fee and shipping policies.

LRP did replace a speedo for me once... I think it was $6 to cover shipping. I have even had some companies not charge for the repair or shipping.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:58 AM   #549
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Default simple as that

It is not as simple as that. The whole point of lipo is to provide a reliable, consistent battery source that doesn't require the maintenance or expense of nimh. Whether racers like it or not, lipo (for the time being) will take over nimh in the near future (I think 1-2 years.) The question is:

Do racers want lipo's sold and marketed in the same way as nimh. In nimh you pay double for another .3v (1.20 vs 1.25 -> .05 x 6 = .3). Do you want LIPO to be sold the same way, or in a way where you get 1/2 the cycle life for .19v higher?

This was a real chance to change one of the biggest perceived problems in r/c -> racing with your wallet, but it seems that both the manufacturers (understandable) and racers (perplexing) want to keep the existing structure. I still say that everyone should race 3.5 brushless. That way, the extra voltage will mean nothing because you won't be able to use it.

Also, why is everyone comparing 2 year orion 15c technology with current lipo cells? How about comparing smc 22c 5000 packs with orions 25c 3600 packs when they are released?

I understand that smc makes money "matching batteries", but in lipo they are not matching anything, they are simply labeling packs they have made for them. Whatever happened to individually matching lipo packs? I guess it wasn't necessary after all!!

I hope that LIPO's will be marketed based on usable racing cycle life, not on which pack has .19v higher. But it seems that the same old ways of selling everything in r/c will win out in the end. OH WELL.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:11 AM   #550
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I haven't seen this thread for a while... and just checked out the last couple pages.

Wow... Turbo Joe... you really need to give it a rest imo. Sound to me like you are grasping at straws here trying to bring down the SMC lipo.

There must be better things for you to worry about, especially since you already have the almighty Orion packs. Go play with them

Peace out
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:29 AM   #551
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Seems to me like everybody wants a free battery.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:33 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Seems to me like everybody wants a free battery.
I think we all need to pitch in and buy Turbo Joe an SMC LiPo battery so he can test it for us, then you can let us ALL know what you think.

If this won't make you happy Turbo Joe, double up on those meds dude.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:01 AM   #553
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Default Free SMC`s

I want one !!

C-Onnnn !

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Old 10-17-2007, 10:16 AM   #554
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I'll put in $2 for a TurboJoe battery fundraiser. LOL
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:58 AM   #555
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In lab tests our packs will hold up to 80% of there rated capacity at a full 22C discharge after 50 cycles. If you take the Kokam info posted on the Orion website they say there cells will hold up to 80% of its rated capacity at a 8 C discharge after 60 cycles. So it's safe to say our pack will still have 80% of it's rated capacity after 60 cycles if we use an 8 C discharge rate like Kokam.

Never did I say our pack will last 60 cycles I just mentioned that in testing it holds up as well as Kokam.


I'm not going to do a claim that says under normal conditions our packs will be good for 1400+ cycles using DOD of 80%. To be honest it would be real hard for the consumer to do such a test and how to establish what normal conditions is suppose to be ?

Another thing that needs to be looked into is how does the packs average voltage and IR hold up over time as this equates to a packs performance. I know for a fact that the majority of racers want fresh cells prior to a big race because they want every bit of voltage and the lowest IR. So the way that Lipo companies actually evaluate there packs based on capacity holding up to a certain percentage may not be the important factor for RC racing applications that demand performance.


Some of you should just move on and keep running what you feel is best for you and your wallet as whatever I say or prove will be debated and most likely you will still not buy our product.
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