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Old 09-25-2007, 08:55 AM   #406
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What does JACO have to do with this?

It's your name on the door, Jack.

And thanks for side-stepping the rest of my post.
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:59 AM   #407
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spin spin sugar...
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:05 AM   #408
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spin spin sugar...
Who are the "Sneaker Pimps"?
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:25 AM   #409
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Who are the "Sneaker Pimps"?
I'll take mediocre 90's pop for $200, Alex.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:40 AM   #410
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I'll take mediocre 90's pop for $200, Alex.
I dont know man, that was pretty obscure. That should have been a $1000 question.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:43 AM   #411
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I dont know man, that was pretty obscure. That should have been a $1000 question.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:47 AM   #412
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SH10151
Hooverphonic? I dont know, I had to google that one.

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Old 09-25-2007, 10:09 AM   #413
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Apex, very well put. You know what kills me, is the fact that manufacturers wont list their suppliers....as if the average "joe schmoe" is going to attempt to buy and build their own lipos.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:11 AM   #414
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Apex, very well put. You know what kills me, is the fact that manufacturers wont list their suppliers....as if the average "joe schmoe" is going to attempt to buy and build their own lipos.
That's kind of funny considering that there is "always" a way around an exclusive distrubution agreement. With sharks like the Big "T" around I don't find it suprising at all that they want to keep their supplier a close guarded secret.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:19 AM   #415
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While no deal with any distributor is bulletproof, for the average consumer that is looking for specs for safety purposes as well as reputation, disclosing this information seems to be tantamount these days. AND, as you know, these suppliers aint just selling one or two cells. Items must be bought in bulk for them to even ponder dealing, so failiing to disclose information is not hurtiing anyone but the lipo pack makers.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:29 AM   #416
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While no deal with any distributor is bulletproof, for the average consumer that is looking for specs for safety purposes as well as reputation, disclosing this information seems to be tantamount these days. AND, as you know, these suppliers aint just selling one or two cells. Items must be bought in bulk for them to even ponder dealing, so failiing to disclose information is not hurtiing anyone but the lipo pack makers.
I guess if you have never had a supplier do business with your competition and therby undercut your share of the market you wouldn't understand. I recall SMC having an "exclusive" with the IB cell and yet I saw Trinity marketing the same cell with different shink wrap in the same market. I really don't think that Trinity was buying cells from SMC, do you? You can't blame them for trying to keep their supply chain to themselves.

Besides, how many companies (making LIPO packs for our market) are disclosing all of their materials and safty data? I am curious as to the actual number of companies doing this.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:42 PM   #417
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I guess if you have never had a supplier do business with your competition and therby undercut your share of the market you wouldn't understand. I recall SMC having an "exclusive" with the IB cell and yet I saw Trinity marketing the same cell with different shink wrap in the same market. I really don't think that Trinity was buying cells from SMC, do you? You can't blame them for trying to keep their supply chain to themselves.

Besides, how many companies (making LIPO packs for our market) are disclosing all of their materials and safty data? I am curious as to the actual number of companies doing this.
Valid point, but figure this. If company A buys cells from manufacturer A, it would be kind of retarded for company B to buy cells from the same manufacturer and attempt to say 1. there product is better and 2. undercut the market with cheaper prices. Lets be frank, a good chunk of the lipo cells coming out perform pretty much the same give or take. The selling point is safety, cost to the consumer, casing. If two companies can buy cells from the same manufacturer, put them in similar packing but one sells their product for a cheaper price, does the end consumer really care? A good chunk of this hobby is re-badging, so what does it matter in the long run? SMC just happened to catch everyones eye because of the soft case and HIGH ASS price
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:58 PM   #418
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No matter what Jack or I say it will be twisted in some sort of negative comment from some of you. Bottom line I did some Lipo research and I'm glad to be working with a small manufacturer who can produce high quality Lipos. If we would of decided to go the Kokam, Ennerland or Saehan route we would just be supplying the same packs as others. SMC has always tried to offer the best matched packs and the most powerful cells. Since some think that using Lipos in racing is the way to go we have decided to launch our own Lipo line and were committed to making them as good as possible.


Since some of you think Kokam is the only safe lipo I sent the safety and testing info posted on the Orion site to our manufacturer. http://press.team-orion.com/press/av...am_quality.pdf


Here is his reply to this info. I'm sure some of you will still not be satisfied with this response but for those who wanted the info here it is.


Dear Danny,

I read via the Kokam quality file. It looks very impressive for the consumers if they don't understand Li-po much, actually, it is kind of standard for any high quality Li-po cells. All our cells are passed the National battery safety standard.

1. The international standard for the over-charging test is limited at 5V(single cell) only. Kokam is using a small cell (740mAh) to do the test, and it is normal that the cell will be swelled when charge at 18V. Our cell can be charged at 18V and will get swelled also. No fire and explosion will be happened. It is all depands on the material that we used in the cell.

2. Our cells passed all the nail penetration test, no fire and no explosion.

3.It should be safe for a cell to discharge at its "labelled" discharge C rate even the temp. is hot. Our cell will not catch fire when discharge at its maximum discharge C rate and it's capacity should remain at at least 90%. This is also an international standard to measure a ture C rate of a high discharge C rate Li-po battery pack.

4. For the cycle life, in Kokam's data, its cell will remain 80% of its capacity after 60 cycle times. However, Kokam discharge the cell at only 8C. Our standard is to remain 80% of the cell's capacity after 50 cycle times but with 22C discharge rate. Thus, with only 8C discharge rate, our cell can do over 60 cycle times with 80% capacity remaining.

5. Our max. charging rate will be 2C, this is based on the protection standard for the cell. It will more or less damage the cell if charge the cell over 3C.

I will provide you our testing data for your reference on the 28th since we are on the mid-autumn festival national holiday now.

Thanks,

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Old 09-25-2007, 01:04 PM   #419
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Valid point, but figure this. If company A buys cells from manufacturer A, it would be kind of retarded for company B to buy cells from the same manufacturer and attempt to say 1. there product is better and 2. undercut the market with cheaper prices. Lets be frank, a good chunk of the lipo cells coming out perform pretty much the same give or take. The selling point is safety, cost to the consumer, casing. If two companies can buy cells from the same manufacturer, put them in similar packing but one sells their product for a cheaper price, does the end consumer really care? A good chunk of this hobby is re-badging, so what does it matter in the long run? SMC just happened to catch everyones eye because of the soft case and HIGH ASS price
Street price on our pack should be 120-135 depending on the shop and there pricing structure so I really don't think that is expensive for a 22C/5000 pack ?

Does your Maxamps 6000 pack come in a hard case ?
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:10 PM   #420
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Danny, great info! My only criticism is that you had to ask them after the fact. I think it was clear that SMC was trying to find the highest performing quality lipo and not necessarily the safest and highest performing quality lipo. But this is great news and should help ease the concern over safety.
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