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Old 09-24-2007, 12:18 PM   #331
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:26 PM   #332
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glassdoctor, if you are on a laptop right now. Turn it over, take out the battery and look at all the logos on it. Then research those logos. To answer your question, if I do a search on the UL online certification directory for the keyword Battery, I get 4132 companies returned.

You know America likes to considers itself the ultimate free thinking country but its amazing how much some of us take for granted.

Last edited by or8ital; 09-24-2007 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:59 PM   #333
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glassdoctor,
You know America likes to considers itself the ultimate free thinking country but its amazing how much some of us take for granted.
If you can drive nails as well as you're hammering on this guy, I'd bet your new house would be done by now

Missed you at the State Race....Are you going to the final one next week?
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:04 PM   #334
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If you can drive nails as well as you're hammering on this guy, I'd bet your new house would be done by now

Missed you at the State Race....Are you going to the final one next week?
Nope unfortunately I wont be there. I will be out of action until Dec or Jan.

If you think this is bad then you should see be a fly on the wall in the phone call Im going to have in a minute where our builder put the house 5" too far over and its now in the set back (and now the Township wants them to tear it down). That should be fun

...Sorry for being off topic...

glassdoctor, you found those logos yet?
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:09 PM   #335
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Let's try it this way: ONE way lipo cell manufacturers get better looking voltage numbers is by using a more volatile mix. Not saying SMC is using cells like this but it is one reason I'd like to see more info.
If a battery company was using a more volatile mix to increase the performance of their battery, what is there to stop them? I don't think market forces will stop them because we (racers/bashers/ etc.) are pushing for "more" performance. If you doubt this please ask yourself why you are not using the GP3300 or a 2000 cell to race with. Sales will dictate what battery chemistries will prevail. Safety will be a secondary concern. This is sad but true. This will get worse if LIPOs are sanctioned for National Event level competition.

For the record: I believe that LIPOs should be allowed for club racing but should not be legal for National Event level racing.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:11 PM   #336
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The fact is that anyone that comes out with a battery that is .02 faster per lap will sell tons of them. You can not deny this FACT! So when sales of an Performance Pack far outstrip those of a safe but slow pack.....what then????? Guess what won't be on the market for long....need proof???? How many of you still run 3300s competitively??? LOL
You do realize that LiPo's popularity now is in spite of the fact that it's at a significant voltage disadvantage to NiMH, right? Do you really think everybody will care about those few extra hundredths of a volt? They don't care that much now, so why would things be any different? Oh, sure, the vapid "racing" crowd will push things to the edge, and maybe you'll need disposable packs for big races, but for the clubs, even the highest voltage LiPo will be closer than things are now.

Plus, lets not forget, not all forms of R/C racing live and die by the volt. There are plenty of cases where there's more power than traction, and voltage doesn't mean a thing.

Also, spec batteries. While there may be differences from one manufacturer to the next, the gap will be significantly smaller if you only allow certain cells from certain companies. We do it with tires and motors, why not batteries as well? All it will do is help racing.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:15 PM   #337
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Nope unfortunately I wont be there. I will be out of action until Dec or Jan.

If you think this is bad then you should see be a fly on the wall in the phone call Im going to have in a minute where our builder put the house 5" too far over and its now in the set back (and now the Township wants them to tear it down). That should be fun

...Sorry for being off topic...

glassdoctor, you found those logos yet?

I heard something like that this weekend......that bites. Best of luck.

BTW Since this horse is beat to death anyway.......I checked out Tri-State this weekend for the opener....it should be the place to be this winter..
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:15 PM   #338
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If a battery company was using a more volatile mix to increase the performance of their battery, what is there to stop them?
The fact that not all industries value voltage over cycle life? Not even all of R/C cares, mostly it's just the stock sedan racers. Plus, a lot of people want safer packs. Encouraging the use of the most dangerous packs possible is deeply irresponsible.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:24 PM   #339
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FWIW, dozens of club racers at my local track have been using soft case lipos in touring cars for the past 2 years. Several people have crashed them bad but not once has then been a safety issue. Lipos are more tough then people think. I've recently got into heli's and all heli lipo batteries are soft case (shrink wraped cells). I've seen helis drive straight into the ground, battery mangled, but no safety issues.

The hard case is really a myth, to put at ease the uneducated people.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:24 PM   #340
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I think unprotected lipos can take more punishment than most people think. I have been trashing this XXX-T for months and have ejected the lipo at least 30 times. The lipo gets banged up, dented, and scratched real bad, and it just keeps going. Here is a vid of just one day of bashing:
http://rcuvideos.com/item/GVB8LPVB1KCYQ75R
At about 3:40 the battery gets ejected and then again at the end. There is no padding or anything added to protect the battery.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:28 PM   #341
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You do realize that LiPo's popularity now is in spite of the fact that it's at a significant voltage disadvantage to NiMH, right? Do you really think everybody will care about those few extra hundredths of a volt? They don't care that much now, so why would things be any different? Oh, sure, the vapid "racing" crowd will push things to the edge, and maybe you'll need disposable packs for big races, but for the clubs, even the highest voltage LiPo will be closer than things are now.

Plus, lets not forget, not all forms of R/C racing live and die by the volt. There are plenty of cases where there's more power than traction, and voltage doesn't mean a thing.

Also, spec batteries. While there may be differences from one manufacturer to the next, the gap will be significantly smaller if you only allow certain cells from certain companies. We do it with tires and motors, why not batteries as well? All it will do is help racing.
LIPOs popularity has everything to do with "ease of use". You really don't have to do a lot to keep a LIPO running well. This is not the case with NIMH and most "Joe Racers" are tired of all of the maintinance and voodoo required. Simplicity and ease of use has spawed LIPOs popularity, not performance.

Sedan Stock and 19T live and die by the volt. They are by far the most popular classes. I am assuming we are talking about onroad because of where we are.

Spec batteries will not change anything. Racers will always seek the edge and will push the limits. All "Spec" packs will do is require the purshase of many packs to find the best ones. This is hard earned experience talking on the spec packs.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:30 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Advil View Post
If a battery company was using a more volatile mix to increase the performance of their battery, what is there to stop them? I don't think market forces will stop them because we (racers/bashers/ etc.) are pushing for "more" performance. If you doubt this please ask yourself why you are not using the GP3300 or a 2000 cell to race with. Sales will dictate what battery chemistries will prevail. Safety will be a secondary concern. This is sad but true. This will get worse if LIPOs are sanctioned for National Event level competition.

For the record: I believe that LIPOs should be allowed for club racing but should not be legal for National Event level racing.
If ROAR legalizes them the primary thing they will test for is safety for allowing a pack. At least that's what David Lee told me.

If you look through the threads of rctech you will find there is a large group of racers that arent looking for "more" performance. They think racing is too fast and we are all wasting too much money trying to gain .01 seconds per lap.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:30 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Anthony.L View Post
FWIW, dozens of club racers at my local track have been using soft case lipos in touring cars for the past 2 years. Several people have crashed them bad but not once has then been a safety issue. Lipos are more tough then people think. I've recently got into heli's and all heli lipo batteries are soft case (shrink wraped cells). I've seen helis drive straight into the ground, battery mangled, but no safety issues.

The hard case is really a myth, to put at ease the uneducated people.
*sigh* you're right. We must be uneducated because we don't agree with you. You should have put that line first so I didn't need to read all the way through to know it wasn't worth reading.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:32 PM   #344
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The fact that not all industries value voltage over cycle life? Not even all of R/C cares, mostly it's just the stock sedan racers. Plus, a lot of people want safer packs. Encouraging the use of the most dangerous packs possible is deeply irresponsible.
You keep forgetting that in this industry what is safe may not be what sells. This hobby (for better or worse) is performance oriented. It always has been and I don't see this changing any time soon. If cool racer "A" wins then Joe racer "B" buys. Simple.

I am NOT encouraging the use of "dangerous" packs. I am just trying to let the "have your cake and eat it too" crowd of the realities of this hobby. I'm not giving you "new" information, only reiterating what you already know.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:33 PM   #345
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I heard something like that this weekend......that bites. Best of luck.

BTW Since this horse is beat to death anyway.......I checked out Tri-State this weekend for the opener....it should be the place to be this winter..
Im anxious to check it out. Rubber tire on carpet (with lipo and brushless) should be the most fun (and least expensive) racing Ive done. It sounds like the new track is top notch. Believe me I would rather be racing....
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