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Old 09-21-2007, 07:18 AM   #271
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I think a simple report like this from each of the companies selling lipos would be sufficient. They dont need to name vendors, etc. Just having 3rd party certification of safety:

http://www.kokam.com/english/biz/safety.html
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:25 AM   #272
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I'm not trying to start this back up, but...isn't that what Danny posted? That it is going to be difficult to tech the batteries for competitive racing.
Here come the flames......
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:30 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
I'm not trying to start this back up, but...isn't that what Danny posted? That it is going to be difficult to tech the batteries for competitive racing.
Here come the flames......
Some companies are doing it, similating the discharge of an RC car and checking for safety. But then there are things that have nothing to do with RC that can be tested too like a puncture test, crush test, etc.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:59 AM   #274
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I got out of electric racing two years ago. I got tired of all the crap involved in preparing a car for a five min run. Running nitro on-road just way upped the fun factor by simply having to put fuel in the car and run!! Okay that may be in oversimplification, but wheel time is way higher. That's why I race......I enjoy some prep...........but mainly I want to drive the car.

In the past few years, the advances in brushless and lipo's is tempting me to look at electric again. Hence the fun factor for me.............which is driving the car ............seems to be increased with these two advances.

With lipo being used for quite some time now, I'm sure the Major MFR's have addressed alot of the safety issues. They have to............or the insurance issues due to liability lawsuits would be off the charts. They've been using lipos for years in all kinds of devices. I'm sure that ROAR working with the current major suppliers could agree to standardize at least one hard cased lipo pack, that would work.

A lipo brushless modified class would really appeal to me. As it would many other racers, who got tired of dealing with so many nimh packs and brushed motors. I got so tired of lugging, chargers, dischargers, comm lathe, power supplies all over the place. Our hobby needs to do more to embrace lowering the costs involved, and do more to LEGALIZE LIPO BRUSHLESS for sanctioned racing.
A very good post and a prime example of why electric racing has shrank over the past several years and now with li-pos and brushless can bring back guys like this to electric racing!!!!

ROAR and ALL the battery manufacturers should be targeting guys like this instead of trying to keep the old school technology racers happy and shuning the new technology that will insure electric racing to grow again!!!!
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:11 AM   #275
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the new technology is what got me back into racing. If my local club doesn't kick off a lipo class for touring car 6 cell, then I might not run it. I have to buy 4 cell nimh packs for oval, but I feel like I am buying an antique everytime I purchase sub c batteries.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:03 AM   #276
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this is why i stop racing really all the skimming & brushing & equalising battery's & baby sitting them all the time
in the last 5 years it has gotten way out off hand

but i/we just got 2-3 local clubs allowing hard case li-po's & BL to run with the 6 cell brushed guy's ,so now i'm racing again this winter
AND MY SON is Too,
I WILL HAVE MORE TIME FOR HIM (Harry)TRACKSIDE RUNNING LI-PO/BL ,even harry will have li-po aswell
then we both can consertrate on the most important thing ,racing & car setups

and if a nationwide series in the UK take this up ,then i would (& harry) carry on racing through the summer ,but if no li-po/BL are allowed ,then sod them
this is what i want to buy & run with MY own money
i've wasted so much moneyin the last 3 years trying to keep up & replace high maintenance racing gear
I said 'No More' still only getting 20 min's track time in a 8 hour day & yet the price to pay to race this HOBBY is just pant's

so i'm back while li-po/BL are around ,unless another decent power source come's along
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:17 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by ottoman View Post
So SMC has a new LiPo customer ... and I cant wait to pit next to a "hard case" fanatic just to watch him worry that my pack might burst into flames
Otto, we're already worried about pitting aroud you with sub C cells!

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Old 09-21-2007, 03:31 PM   #278
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Default I hope the MFR's out there are listening...

I kind of thought I wasn't the only one tired of all the charging, discharging cycling and all the other business involved in sub-c nimh's Along with all of the motor maintenance. Hey some people do like doing all of that stuff. I personally would like to spend more time driving the car.

AS soon as ROAR and the mfr's of lipos get together and offer an approved lipo for sanctioned racing.......I will again visit sanctioned racing. Until then no. With the economy tightening up and more of our EXTRA cash going into our gas tanks, people are more careful on how they spend money. When a new potential racer visits a track, they are fascinated by the speed of the cars and ask questions on how to get started. They go to one of the pits of the racers, and what do they see? Multiple chargers, dischargers, multiple power supplies, comm lathe.......four or five battery packs.........and what do they do?? They leave..........thinking this isn't for me. MFR's need to hear these stories, and OFFER an alternative to this by pushing for a BL/LIPO approved sanctioned class!!

I know many of the battery mfr's want to be able to sell four or five battery packs to a customer, but they are losing new customers.........and existing ones.........because the costs of the perephial equipment needed have become unaffordable for most. Motor companies want to sell brushes, comm lathes, and motors.

If Roar approves a BL/LIPO class..........trust me.................alot of people will go into it. Give the racers who left an incentive to return.
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:45 PM   #279
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Every time there is a lipo thread, right away there is two camps. One that is for soft lipo's and one for cased lipo's. I guess it is like insurance. Some think that you need it (hardcase) and some think you don't. (soft case) I see it as a safety issue. Maybe we don't need it but if we do, then we had better have it.

Jack Rimer said:
"My point is that before coming to any conclusions about our "uncased" packs, perhaps you need to get your stickers blown off by one of these before formulating an opinion."

It seems that the oval community has been leaning toward the Orion/ Peak cells as the only cell that is allowed. I think they feel that we need to get a handle on lipo's before they become like NiMh. Where you have new cells coming out every 6-9 months. The oval crowd has made Novak B/L the only motor allowed. All this to try to control cost. After it is all said and done, that is why RC racing is taking a hit. I hope that the rest of the RC racing community will see whare this is headed and try to stop it.

I have used SMC cells all most from the beginning of the company. I am ashamed of the way SMC has presented its self here. Mr. Rimer has said that they will have a hard case soon. They obviously ordered the packs without a case ready for sale. Maybe they hadn't manufactured the case's in advance or delays from the supplier is why they didn't release them with a case. Either way, they decided to release the cells so they wouldn't get stuck with them.
S for SMC not releasing batteries without them being safe, They, and others matchers, have been selling cells that are not safe for at least 6 months. So, why would Lipo's be any different?

Last edited by gezer2u; 09-21-2007 at 04:47 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:51 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Since we are on the subject (not related to SMC)

For all you that say these RC companies are all going to insure these batteries are safe why cant these Global 500 companies do it? This article from earlier this week demonstrates why battery safety is at the forefront of everyone's mind be it lipo, li-ion, etc:

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=1180

^^ EVERYONE READ THIS^^
Mister Black has said on here that some battery manufacturers have a real problem with QC. That is why they went with Kokam cells. Good info though!
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:56 PM   #281
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after 2 seasons of running a hard cased 4800, with a BL 4.5, in a pro 4,and seeing the abuse it took( and I mean a few good t BONES), there's no way I am switching to a different soft shell LIPO, with connectors that DO NOT match the plug in, charge and balance, Scorpion charger.......

I'll wait and see what Rick Howart has in mind at reedy, and the improvements they make at Orion....
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:06 PM   #282
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Well I did run the SMC lipos today in my stadium truck. I didn't measure any real performance parameters, but it seemed to work great. Tons of power and punch. Minus the safety issue, they seem to be a great pack. I am looking forward to seeing someone actually test the packs with some better data.

I do feel that they may be a "safer" pack in something like a stadium truck because they have the chassis to protect it. In a TC, the pack is sort of left in the open and could take a substantial side impact.

As for cost which has been mentioned a couple times in the thread...I bought mine for 130.00 at a LHS.

So far I really like this pack!!!
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:24 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by gezer2u View Post
Every time there is a lipo thread, right away there is two camps. One that is for soft lipo's and one for cased lipo's. I guess it is like insurance. Some think that you need it (hardcase) and some think you don't. (soft case) I see it as a safety issue. Maybe we don't need it but if we do, then we had better have it.

Jack Rimer said:
"My point is that before coming to any conclusions about our "uncased" packs, perhaps you need to get your stickers blown off by one of these before formulating an opinion."

It seems that the oval community has been leaning toward the Orion/ Peak cells as the only cell that is allowed. I think they feel that we need to get a handle on lipo's before they become like NiMh. Where you have new cells coming out every 6-9 months. The oval crowd has made Novak B/L the only motor allowed. All this to try to control cost. After it is all said and done, that is why RC racing is taking a hit. I hope that the rest of the RC racing community will see whare this is headed and try to stop it.

I have used SMC cells all most from the beginning of the company. I am ashamed of the way SMC has presented its self here. Mr. Rimer has said that they will have a hard case soon. They obviously ordered the packs without a case ready for sale. Maybe they hadn't manufactured the case's in advance or delays from the supplier is why they didn't release them with a case. Either way, they decided to release the cells so they wouldn't get stuck with them.
S for SMC not releasing batteries without them being safe, They, and others matchers, have been selling cells that are not safe for at least 6 months. So, why would Lipo's be any different?
I would ask you to start at the beginning of this thread and be aware of two things. First, I explained why we came out with a non-cased pack. The reasons are actually rather simple and innocent. Contrary to what we have been accused of, it had nothing to do with economics and everything to do with cosmetics! We just wanted to show off the really nice job these people do with our packs. The quality of assembly is impressive. Second, I want you to read my posts up to #35 and tell me if I was rude and obnoxious or helpful and candid. Then look at #37 and see how the tide changes as I come under increasing attack and speculation. Not a lot of people are looking at it from my point of view- as a manufacturer defending our decisions and reputation against some pretty belligerant criticism. Anyone who knows me can tell you I won't sit back and take it. We have worked too hard to build SMC up into a reputable company. And along the way we have overcome much more daunting obstacles than internet criticism to succeed. You can criticize the way I handle myself all you want, but I'm sure many of you would do the same if something you cared about so much was, in your eyes, unfairly attacked.
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:54 PM   #284
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Dude...really...the martyr thing doesn't wear well.

I think that given the stonewalling we've seen from you in this thread, you've been treated very kindly.

It couldn't be a shock to you that people on here are going to want to know the details and particulars on any new high-dollar Lipo pack. With all the drama surrounding Lipo technology and resistance from the sub-c crowd regarding the "safety concerns" with Lipo packs, many, many people want to know the details...and you don't want to tell anyone anything but "Trust us, we're bitchin'".

The way I see it, you're more interested in selling packs to the E-Maxx crowd and you think we're a pain in the ass and too demanding...why do you keep posting here then?

You want everyone to take your word that they're the cat's ass...but you don't offer anything at all, besides snide remarks and insults. You don't make them yourself and you refuse to share any information that would allow a consumer to make an educated decision. You tell everyone what sub-C cells they're buying and they have the specs printed right on the side...why not hide that as well?

Maybe you think you can sell plenty based on your name alone...good for you...I hope it works out for you. Maybe you should just start pitching them on the Traxxas board. They're probably more your type of crowd.
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Old 09-21-2007, 10:15 PM   #285
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Dude...really...the martyr thing doesn't wear well.

I think that given the stonewalling we've seen from you in this thread, you've been treated very kindly.

It couldn't be a shock to you that people on here are going to want to know the details and particulars on any new high-dollar Lipo pack. With all the drama surrounding Lipo technology and resistance from the sub-c crowd regarding the "safety concerns" with Lipo packs, many, many people want to know the details...and you don't want to tell anyone anything but "Trust us, we're bitchin'".

The way I see it, you're more interested in selling packs to the E-Maxx crowd and you think we're a pain in the ass and too demanding...why do you keep posting here then?

You want everyone to take your word that they're the cat's ass...but you don't offer anything at all, besides snide remarks and insults. You don't make them yourself and you refuse to share any information that would allow a consumer to make an educated decision. You tell everyone what sub-C cells they're buying and they have the specs printed right on the side...why not hide that as well?

Maybe you think you can sell plenty based on your name alone...good for you...I hope it works out for you. Maybe you should just start pitching them on the Traxxas board. They're probably more your type of crowd.
I rest my case.

It is the SMC LiPo thread and he asks why I am posting here. Awesome!
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