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Old 09-20-2007, 10:32 AM   #226
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Default lipo haters and supporters

Personally, I am 100% behind lipos. I have been using lipo's for the past year and hope to never go back to nimh. I try to talk everyone I meet (in r/c) to go LIPO. So I hope that my attitudes and bullsh** (according to Jack/SMC) aren't hurting the cause.

BUT, that being said, I really don't want to pit next to someone who is using a damaged lipo pack, and at $120-$150 a pop, I am 100% sure that some racers will try to reuse their damaged packs. At least a hard case can minimize some of the damage to lipo packs.

IMO, LIPO is the best thing to come along for the r/c hobbyist in a long time. Having a consistent battery that works week after week and year after year without the need to assemble, discharge, cycle, etc, is a huge step forward in r/c.

What I don't want to see happen is to have r/c racers treat lipo's in the same cavalier way they treat nimh, because the resulting mishaps will kill the lipo movement in r/c racing, and having a soft sided lipo pack makes it Much easier to damage the pack.

And Jack, I realize you are a big name in r/c, but you don't know anything about me, except that I dare to question your companies products. So leave the insults alone. I have never insulted you or smc, I have simply dared to question 1 of your products. As a matter of fact, in the nimh market, smc is among the best, and I have a lot of respect for some smc sponsored racers. The only thing you are doing by getting belingerant is hurting your own reputation.

I'll tell you what, if smc doesn't think a hard case is necessary to protect a lipo, will SMC replace packs damaged in a mishap?
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:37 AM   #227
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In terms of LIPO, you have a knowledgable expert (linger) who's opinions I would take in a second over a company trying to sell me a product. And if linger isn't who he says he is, he is an amazing and very well informed imposter. The points that linger makes are simple:
1) quality between LIPO packs from different manufacturers varies greatly
2) the company who makes the LIPO cells is VERY IMPORTANT
3) because of mechanical damage, LIPO cells should be in a hard case

Now I have SMC telling me to trust them that their cell comes from a top tier manufacturere and that cases are not needed (or else they would have included one). Well, OK.
Linger has also mentioned several times that there are many companies that make packs with higher C ratings and higher output and that those have dramatically cycle life (lose 10-20% in a couple dozen cycles?), while the Kokam cells have almost no deterioration after hundreds of cycles. Basically that it's no big trick to have a high-output LiPo and that the Kokam cells are made for durability and cycle life. I know I have a 2 year-old 4800 that still runs great.

The thing I notice about the " Nyah-Nyah...I won't you who makes our packs" bit is that it looks like a lack of confidence in their supplier. If it's a reputable company, why not lock them in and be loud and proud like Orion is with Kokam?

Everybody knows what Sub-C you're buying...but when you buy a LiPo, it's like you're buying a watch from the shady dude on the corner. You don't know whether it's a "Rolex" or a "Folex".
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:46 AM   #228
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Linger has also mentioned several times that there are many companies that make packs with higher C ratings and higher output and that those have dramatically cycle life (lose 10-20% in a couple dozen cycles?), while the Kokam cells have almost no deterioration after hundreds of cycles. Basically that it's no big trick to have a high-output LiPo and that the Kokam cells are made for durability and cycle life. I know I have a 2 year-old 4800 that still runs great.

The thing I notice about the " Nyah-Nyah...I won't you who makes our packs" bit is that it looks like a lack of confidence in their supplier. If it's a reputable company, why not lock them in and be loud and proud like Orion is with Kokam?

Everybody knows what Sub-C you're buying...but when you buy a LiPo, it's like you're buying a watch from the shady dude on the corner. You don't know whether it's a "Rolex" or a "Folex".
This is just speculation on my part:

The only reason I see to not name the supplier is that either they arent exclusive with them or they were unable to get them to commit to being exclusive with them. I believe Orion and Kokam have an exclusive relationship in RC. SMC has said they are the only ones using this supplier which means the supplier is at least entertaining the ability to sell to other RC companies.

... or as you said they arent proud of their supplier.

With that said does the name of a company give us a lot of confidence in a battery or does documentation of thats companies safety give us the confidence? In my opinion keep the name, give us the data!
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:55 AM   #229
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Will someone PLEASE tell me where I said I am opposed to hard cased LiPo's? This is a conclusion that many of you have formulated as an excuse to attack SMC. One of my first posts says that we only decided against it because we felt the quality of the packs we recived as samples were of higher quality than most and to cover them up would be a shame. Stupid decision? I'm sure some of you would say yes. Did we do it to save money? No. Did we do it to be different? No. Did we do it because "we are SMC and we're trying to force it down everyone's throats"? Please. Give us the benefit of the doubt. Am I backtracking? No, read my posts on page one. Would we do it differently? Maybe. Maybe not. As I said, to add the casing is easy. If we are guilty of anything, it may be that we spent too much time searching for the best packs we could find and too little time researching consumer demand for hard case packs. However, once they arrive, I'm sure you will be glad we did our research.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:57 AM   #230
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I just picture Danny and Jack (ala Penguins in Madagascar movie) saying "Our work here is done......smile and wave boys......smile and wave"
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:01 AM   #231
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Thank You for clarifying your point Jack.........I guess I'll wait for your v 2.0 of your battery when it comes out.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:02 AM   #232
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This is just speculation on my part:

The only reason I see to not name the supplier is that either they arent exclusive with them or they were unable to get them to commit to being exclusive with them. I believe Orion and Kokam have an exclusive relationship in RC. SMC has said they are the only ones using this supplier which means the supplier is at least entertaining the ability to sell to other RC companies.

... or as you said they arent proud of their supplier.

With that said does the name of a company give us a lot of confidence in a battery or does documentation of thats companies safety give us the confidence? In my opinion keep the name, give us the data!
Can you just let this rest? DON"T BUY OUR PACKS IF IT WORRIES YOU THIS MUCH. You aren't the LiPo police.
Everything in this particular post is WRONG. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our line so just quit making up hypothetical scenarios. What purpose does it serve other than to try to make us look bad. Perhaps I should come to where you work and speculate about your job performance in front of your customers. I'll just make stuff up about you. "Speculation" we will call it. I'm only trying to educate everyone so no harm, right?
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:09 AM   #233
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Can you just let this rest? DON"T BUY OUR PACKS IF IT WORRIES YOU THIS MUCH. You aren't the LiPo police.
Everything in this particular post is WRONG. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our line so just quit making up hypothetical scenarios. What purpose does it serve other than to try to make us look bad. Perhaps I should come to where you work and speculate about your job performance in front of your customers. I'll just make stuff up about you. "Speculation" we will call it. I'm only trying to educate everyone so no harm, right?
Should I PM you the address? You are more the welcome to come to my place of work.

Again, Im not making anyone look bad to those with reading comprehension. You are doing a fine job of that yourself.

If everything in my post is wrong then you lied earlier in this thread btw.

So if I understands SMC's approach (tell me if Im wrong). If someone asks about safety of your product then the appropriate response is to attack them?
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:14 AM   #234
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By the way you and every other person on this forum use my companies products everyday.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:16 AM   #235
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How about answering my question...where did I say I was opposed to hard case LiPo's?
BTW- we do have an exclusive. They are not entertaining other R/C companies. We are very proud of our supplier. So, yes everything you "speculated" on was wrong.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:17 AM   #236
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clip to save space: a bunch of sarcasm
You don't make the cells, you don't seem to want to release any actual data regarding them (cycle life, output, etc.) and you get snippy with anyone who asks you for the same data that Orion gives out. Just trust you because you're SMC and you've made a lot of phone calls, right?

I just wanted to make sure I had it right so I could ignore this thread from now on...
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:17 AM   #237
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This is crazy. If SMC is putting out Li-Po battery packs and is willing to put their name on the cells then you can pretty much count on these products being up to their strict standards.

Just my 2cents,
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:17 AM   #238
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http://www.cpsc.gov/
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:19 AM   #239
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They've got their hands full at the moment...with other high-quality Chinese products sold by other reputable US firms.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:20 AM   #240
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By the way you and every other person on this forum use my companies products everyday.
Would that company appreciate it if perhaps I "speculated" to OSHA that you have some safety violations. Same thing. You may not care, but I bet the owner would.
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