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Old 09-19-2007, 11:09 PM   #181
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btw, I saw the SMC pack on Horizons site a couple weeks ago and I was excited to see it. More companies with lipos are a good thing, esp a big time "nickel" company like SMC.

I can hear the r/c sanctioning bodies now:
"the lipos are coming! the lipos are coming!"
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:57 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by undark View Post
You mean like potential customers that ask questions like "WHAT DAMN CELL AM I BUYING?".
That question is the biggest inside joke in the industry. You guys "HEAR" certain LiPo brands are better than others from some website or some guy that claims he knows something and then you are all LiPo experts. It can take months of emails, phone calls and good contacts in China to figure out who ACTUALLY makes the cells. Even major companies that are supposed to be the "Good Ones" have other companies making cells for them as subcontractors.

So how do you seperate good from bad? You buy from reputable companies with long track records of producing qulity products like Orion, Schumacher and SMC.

These companies do hard core testing and will not sell something that will tarnish their well earned positive image.


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The nerve of some people... how dare they want real answers instead of a 5 page thread that basically says nothing more than "daddy knows best."
Well, when you act like children....

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I applaud company representatives for getting on the Internet and dealing with the unwashed masses. That's how you differentiate yourselves from the faceless companies out there, and show you care. But you know what? These companies do a LOT of their business on the Internet, so they SHOULD support it. You don't get to use it for product exposure and then hide behind the "oh noes, Internet people are mean" excuse when the hard questions come out.
The problem is RCTech is not representative of the general population of racers. Its a good resource for info once you muddle through all the "internet experts" but people here are more negative and suspicious than then guys I race with every other Sunday.

Everytime I talk to an industry leader I always hear the same thing, "Hey, did you see the thread about my (insert product)? I went on to clear a few things up and it turned into a shit storm. I'll never do that again!"
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:20 AM   #183
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I'm outta here time to bash the schumacher boys
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:53 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
You guys "HEAR" certain LiPo brands are better than others from some website or some guy that claims he knows something and then you are all LiPo experts.
You seem like a nice guy Adrian, so I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. But, I would much sooner trust the insight of an unbiased industry expert that just happens to race R/C cars than your marketing doublespeak.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:42 AM   #185
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In the past I have commented on Lipos and my personal feelings are that they aren't the way to go for serious RC racing. Some have argued/debated that this is the way to go.



After testing various Lipos I came to the conclusion that Lipos do have some advantages but also have some disadvantages.


Racers/Hobbyists playing with Lipos seem to think they are great but as with any rechargeable battery performance will drop overtime. This means the racer who wants to be competitive will need to buy fresh Lipos to stay on top.


Since Lipos are being manufactured by multiple companies the quest for these companies to capture the RC market will be very intense. SMC has been very fortunate to find a company who seems to be able to make high performance Lipos but we expect other manufacturers to adjust. This means we will push our manufacturer to make higher performance Lipos to stay ahead of the competition. SMC is comitted to offering it's customers the highest quality products and will continue to push the limits of whatever products we offer.


I'm not a fan of Lipos for competitive racing as I feel it will become a war of those who have and those who don't have. If you go to any major RC race you will see very similar and competitive lap times. This is in part due to the sub-c market being very stable so every one can buy a pack that is very competitive.


SMC has introduced 3 high performance Lipos to the RC market. 2 of these packs are intended for the RC helicopter market. We have one pack for the E-Flite Blade CP and one for the Raptor Helicopter. Our 3rd pack is the 5000/7.4 which some seem to think will not be a good pack since it's not in a plastic case. Our main goal is to offer the best possible pack at a competitve price. I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but there is way more RC enthusiasts using Traxxas vehicles than those using sedans so our 5000 RC car/truck pack is geared towards them. Were looking into a plastic case pack for the sedan racers who are concerned about impacts. Some also seem to mention the price of our packs. I really don't understand how they can compare them to what is available as we have a 22c/5000 pack built to fit RC cars and trucks. Comparing them to a 20c/4800 or a 20/25C pack built for flight isn't a good and fair comparison.


Since some of you seem to be concerned as to who is manufacturing our Lipos I would like to offer a free pack to anyone who can guess who makes them. so far none of you have figured it out and I doubt that you will as our manufacturer is not a major one but they have proven to us that they can make real high quality Lipos and we expect them to stay on top if needed.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:07 AM   #186
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Is it by thunderpower? Just a very random guess. Dun mind me Anyway I am very confident of SMC cells. Just ordered 3 packs of 4200s yesterday
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:18 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Leodis View Post
Since everyone's taking the gloves off

1) Soft lipos should never be used with a cf chassis.

2) The reason why I won't buy a SMC lipo isn't because it doesn't have a built-in fuse, hard case, or that SMC isn't disclosing which cells they're using. It's actually due to the fact that I clearly remember Danny from SMC doing his fair share of bashing lipo on rctech before SMC jumped on the lipo bandwagon.

To all the Johnny-Come-Latelys who have been bashing BL and lipo and then expect us to buy their BL stuff and lipo batteries: Good luck with that.

You all have been reported and this thread will be closed.

Please find a thread where I have bashed Lipos. I do feel they have no place in competitive racing as I feel this should be a fair and equal playing field. As there is no way to tech Lipos they should not be race legal.

If you think that all Lipos are the same your mistaken. In my extensive tests I have seen Lipos range from 7.08-7.36 in voltage and from 12.2 to 8.0 in Internal Resistance at 35 amps.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:19 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Kail View Post
Is it by thunderpower? Just a very random guess. Dun mind me Anyway I am very confident of SMC cells. Just ordered 3 packs of 4200s yesterday

Sorry no free pack for you.

Thank you for choosing SMC.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:25 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
In the past I have commented on Lipos and my personal feelings are that they aren't the way to go for serious RC racing. Some have argued/debated that this is the way to go.



After testing various Lipos I came to the conclusion that Lipos do have some advantages but also have some disadvantages.


Racers/Hobbyists playing with Lipos seem to think they are great but as with any rechargeable battery performance will drop overtime. This means the racer who wants to be competitive will need to buy fresh Lipos to stay on top.


Since Lipos are being manufactured by multiple companies the quest for these companies to capture the RC market will be very intense. SMC has been very fortunate to find a company who seems to be able to make high performance Lipos but we expect other manufacturers to adjust. This means we will push our manufacturer to make higher performance Lipos to stay ahead of the competition. SMC is comitted to offering it's customers the highest quality products and will continue to push the limits of whatever products we offer.


I'm not a fan of Lipos for competitive racing as I feel it will become a war of those who have and those who don't have. If you go to any major RC race you will see very similar and competitive lap times. This is in part due to the sub-c market being very stable so every one can buy a pack that is very competitive.


SMC has introduced 3 high performance Lipos to the RC market. 2 of these packs are intended for the RC helicopter market. We have one pack for the E-Flite Blade CP and one for the Raptor Helicopter. Our 3rd pack is the 5000/7.4 which some seem to think will not be a good pack since it's not in a plastic case. Our main goal is to offer the best possible pack at a competitve price. I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but there is way more RC enthusiasts using Traxxas vehicles than those using sedans so our 5000 RC car/truck pack is geared towards them. Were looking into a plastic case pack for the sedan racers who are concerned about impacts. Some also seem to mention the price of our packs. I really don't understand how they can compare them to what is available as we have a 22c/5000 pack built to fit RC cars and trucks. Comparing them to a 20c/4800 or a 20/25C pack built for flight isn't a good and fair comparison.


Since some of you seem to be concerned as to who is manufacturing our Lipos I would like to offer a free pack to anyone who can guess who makes them. so far none of you have figured it out and I doubt that you will as our manufacturer is not a major one but they have proven to us that they can make real high quality Lipos and we expect them to stay on top if needed.

By the way your packs looks constructed, it looks like the electrifly power series lipo.

http://www.electrifly.com/powersyste...mp0634-lrg.jpg

Also since it is made in korea. I would suspect that was made by the Seahan Enertech company.

My second guess would be the same company that makes the Align lipos, since they are the only lipo batts that offer 22c discharge rate.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:29 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Racers/Hobbyists playing with Lipos seem to think they are great but as with any rechargeable battery performance will drop overtime. This means the racer who wants to be competitive will need to buy fresh Lipos to stay on top.
Ive ran the same pack for a year and my lap times have been faster over that year. Someday I might need to buy a new lipo but the year prior I owned like 12 nimh batteries (most SMC btw).

Its statements like that which bother me. People get on here acting like they are experts and putting down the consumers as "not knowing anything". Well I know my experience over the last year and its contrary to statements like the one above.

This isnt unique to SMC. Its the unfortunate realitity of RC. Myth sells and sometimes in order to make your product look better you have to put down the competition. Its cut throat. Not everyone does this (EAMotorsports comes to mind, he always plugs other tuners) but the vast majority seem to.

Then there is the "your not a real consumer bc you post on rctech". I guess if Im not a real consumer the many thousand of dollars Ive spend on RC over the years should be returned to me.

Again not all of this directed at SMC b/c they did not post all of that.

Personally, I dont care who makes the cells. I really dont but I would like to see data on safety that gives me confidence (other then just trust us). Even if its just having a third party testing and certifying.

This will change. In talking to David Lee (Technical Director for ROAR) in the spring he said safety was ROARs biggest concern for lipo. He said in order to allow lipo they would need a way to test what was safe and not safe in order to endorse a cell. Their biggest problem being they dont have the equipment or expertise to do that.

Last edited by or8ital; 09-20-2007 at 07:03 AM. Reason: typo; added more
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:40 AM   #191
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Just to play along my guess:

Shenzhen lionikbattery Co
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:33 AM   #192
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Default Adrian, Jack, Danny (SMC)

So I guess the packs are now designed for the emaxx. Ok. Just because the reception for your new product wasn't all-> "wow, where can I buy that?", the answer is to dismiss the rctech members who actually question the product, and to change intentions and uses at whim.

I hope that rctech readers will see and understand how and what is being sold to us; without any details or data of anything. Sub-c have always been sold by brand (sanyo, panasonic, GP, IB, EP) and capacity. Now it seems with the exception of Orion on the LIPO front, the lipo cell manufacturer is a secret.

In the beginning of this thread the talk was how hard cases aren't needed, now smc reps are saying they will look into hard cases for their lipo packs. At least some progress has been made.

As a hobby, r/c is interesting because you have many small consumable companies (motors, batteries, parts, tires) all fighting for a piece of a shrinking pie. Most products are sold by claims of ever faster speed, when the push around the world is to slow the cars down. But again what do I know, I am just a keyboard hero (can I pick which superhero I am?)

In terms of LIPO, you have a knowledgable expert (linger) who's opinions I would take in a second over a company trying to sell me a product. And if linger isn't who he says he is, he is an amazing and very well informed imposter. The points that linger makes are simple:
1) quality between LIPO packs from different manufacturers varies greatly
2) the company who makes the LIPO cells is VERY IMPORTANT
3) because of mechanical damage, LIPO cells should be in a hard case

Now I have SMC telling me to trust them that their cell comes from a top tier manufacturere and that cases are not needed (or else they would have included one). Well, OK.

Then you have an SMC rep comparing new LIPO cells to Orion's 4800 15c cells that are 2 year old technology, again putting speed above all else.

I think I will wait for orion's new packs until smc starts playing on the same field as orion.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:50 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
So I guess the packs are now designed for the emaxx. Ok. Just because the reception for your new product wasn't all-> "wow, where can I buy that?", the answer is to dismiss the rctech members who actually question the product, and to change intentions and uses at whim.

I hope that rctech readers will see and understand how and what is being sold to us; without any details or data of anything. Sub-c have always been sold by brand (sanyo, panasonic, GP, IB, EP) and capacity. Now it seems with the exception of Orion on the LIPO front, the lipo cell manufacturer is a secret.

In the beginning of this thread the talk was how hard cases aren't needed, now smc reps are saying they will look into hard cases for their lipo packs. At least some progress has been made.

As a hobby, r/c is interesting because you have many small consumable companies (motors, batteries, parts, tires) all fighting for a piece of a shrinking pie. Most products are sold by claims of ever faster speed, when the push around the world is to slow the cars down. But again what do I know, I am just a keyboard hero (can I pick which superhero I am?)

In terms of LIPO, you have a knowledgable expert (linger) who's opinions I would take in a second over a company trying to sell me a product. And if linger isn't who he says he is, he is an amazing and very well informed imposter. The points that linger makes are simple:
1) quality between LIPO packs from different manufacturers varies greatly
2) the company who makes the LIPO cells is VERY IMPORTANT
3) because of mechanical damage, LIPO cells should be in a hard case

Now I have SMC telling me to trust them that their cell comes from a top tier manufacturere and that cases are not needed (or else they would have included one). Well, OK.

Then you have an SMC rep comparing new LIPO cells to Orion's 4800 15c cells that are 2 year old technology, again putting speed above all else.

I think I will wait for orion's new packs until smc starts playing on the same field as orion.
OK Bill, we know you are in love with the orion packs, can you quit repeating yourself. They are not going to disclose thier manufacturer, they obviously worked hard to find a manufacturer, that most companies don't know about.

Also, never once has anyone from smc tried to push thier products on us, this thread was initially getting used for us to be critics to thier packs. The Hard case thing has been discussed and we have all made our point. Nuff said.

Now anyone that has actually ran the pack, lets get some real feedback. I am currently waiting on mine and I plan on some head to head testing between it and a brand new orion 4800.


BTW Danny my guess is hyper power
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:06 AM   #194
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Bill, your post is so full of bullshit I don't know where to start. First, pry yourself out of Orion's colon long enough to actually read my posts. I said from the start that we had considered a hard covering. I have never discounted it or implied in any way that it was inferior. Your opinions are so clouded by your bias that it makes it downright impossible to believe anything you have to say. Everything you post contains some derogatory comment about SMC. Go grind your axe somewhere else in order to prevent further embarrasment.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:16 AM   #195
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Bill, your post is so full of bullshit I don't know where to start. First, pry yourself out of Orion's colon long enough to actually read my posts. I said from the start that we had considered a hard covering. I have never discounted it or implied in any way that it was inferior. Your opinions are so clouded by your bias that it makes it downright impossible to believe anything you have to say. Everything you post contains some derogatory comment about SMC. Go grind your axe somewhere else in order to prevent further embarrasment.
I've never understood why company representatives would make such non-professional posts such as this one on a public forum. You might not agree with the guy and you may be right but it comes off so bad.

Jack, I know you hate me because I said responding to safety concerns with "just try it" was irresponsible. We can agree to disagee on that. I dont have any ill-will towards SMC and will continue to use my SMC nimh packs. They have been great. Im also glad to see you guys enter the lipo market. The more the better it will be for all of us. I just want to know how you can assure your customers these are safe? I realize your company reputation is on the line and you dont want to risk that. But obviously in order to state that its safe you must have done some testing on its safety. Is there any data you can share? Sorry to beat a dead horse. If you dont want to that is cool. To your point there will be plenty of people that dont care that will buy it. If you say "we wont share our safety data" then I will leave it alone.
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