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Tamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X

Old 02-26-2008, 04:19 AM
  #1456  
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Default Carpet Wars twoday

So then...

Had my first run with the 416 in modified this past weekend... in fact my first time ever running 5cell brushless... nothing like jumping in at the deep-end, but boy did I enjoy it

Started out pretty much with Jilles' setup from the DHI, although was running higher roll centres and less rear toe-in to start with. During the meeting, was basically trying to find more steering a lot of the time. Did get too one point where it made the rear of the car too snappy, but managed to solve that by dropping the rear RC a little. The track really didn't have any big braking areas (yes, even with a mod), so steering was pretty key to getting a good lap time.

I do have a full setup sheet, just haven't had time to put it up yet. Didn't end up too far off my stock setup from a few pages ago... only differences over that setup and the one i ended up on this weekend were;
45wt front oil (from 50),
0.5mm less under all the suspension blocks (so 0.5mm F and 1mm rear, instead of 1mm and 1.5),
2mm under the outer rear ball joint (instead of 3mm)
X/E rear blocks instead of B/E,
Spool instead of a one-way,

Have sat down and though about the setup for a little while, I think one way of getting some more initial steering would be to run slightly narrower front blocks, or even a little front arm sweep.... So I might try C/C or D/C in future. I've actually got a 3.0 block from the Serpent S400 on the way to try this, as if ircc, the 3.0 from that car closely matches a 1C from the tamiyas, plus it can be easily flipped, like the 416 blocks

As for embarasing myself... didn't really happen Managed to Q 28th, so happily in the C. In the finals, realled off 5, 6, 5 for finishing positions... but slightly annoyingly ended up 8th overall with 10 points, whereas three drivers in front of me all had 9... bugger.
Good thing was, no big breakages, only slight issue is when I got home I noticed a slight bit of delamination on the chassis plate under the motor. Was only about 10mm long, so borrowed some epoxy resin from work, and patched it up last night. I love working in a composites company...

Still good weekend, and in all honesty the car was really good. Biggest thing holding me back was the lack of mod driving, I was just taking way too much speed into some corners, and wildly missing the apex. I'm putting that down simply to not having driven a mod before, and needing to get used to the speed.


I'll post the sheet up later

Regards
Ed
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:33 AM
  #1457  
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Nobody has a good setup for foam/asphalt to share?
Thank you in advance !
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:36 AM
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Default What in Store Sunday.....

Originally Posted by JimmyMac View Post
Really??? Damn... they keep changing the rules!! haha... What next? Eliminate 13.5 and move to 17.5 for GT2? I also see they added a min weight for GT1 as well too. I'll be racing GT2 this year anyways.

That leave more on the table for me......Did you get your Inboard Front Suspension kit????? I was feeling sick the whole week.....Although I did manage to get some practice time in on Saturday with TRf416..Excellent......I put the 19t in and the car was on point....I was very impressed...after I located the hold backs on the car......Will be changing my Cells......so by Sunday you can see what is in store......
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:56 AM
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No IFS yet for me. I'll wait later on when I dump some stuff off.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
So then...

Did get too one point where it made the rear of the car too snappy, but managed to solve that by dropping the rear RC a little.

Good thing was, no big breakages, only slight issue is when I got home I noticed a slight bit of delamination on the chassis plate under the motor. Was only about 10mm long, so borrowed some epoxy resin from work, and patched it up last night. I love working in a composites company...


Regards
Ed
when you say the rear was snappy, do you mean it would fishtail a little? cause i would think that raising rear rc would have helped?

would you attribute the delamination to? motor heat? impact?

thanks
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:00 AM
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My rear end was fishtailing it on carpet this past weekend. But I think that may have been too soft of springs all around causing front end to dip down and lift the rear up too much. Even with droop and roll center changes. Next time I'm gonna try and stiffen up all around. But I don't know when I'll get to run carpet again.
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Old 02-26-2008, 03:19 PM
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Maffoda,

not sure if you were lookin for a foam asphalt setup or for indoor use. So since i only run foam indoor heres the setup i have been testing with at my local track.

After this weeks big race i will repost with a better setup.
Attached Thumbnails Tamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X-foam-setup.jpg  
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Old 02-26-2008, 03:23 PM
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I also forgot to mention i have made some changes to the front steering geometry using the previous generation steering assembly. I did this to change the akerman which is very important with foam. I will be posting pics later tonight.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:33 AM
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Thank you Corey, but I need a setup, or a good starting point, for foams on outdoor asphalt track.
However thank you again, I remain tuned on this thread ....
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by quantum View Post
when you say the rear was snappy, do you mean it would fishtail a little? cause i would think that raising rear rc would have helped?

would you attribute the delamination to? motor heat? impact?

thanks
The snappness was would be when highly loaded, the rear would suddenly loose grip. This was most telling on some quick swtich back sections, when the rear would come change direction too quickly. Otherwise the rear was rock solid, no problems with "fishtailing" anywhere
On the 415 I solved this by moving the rear link out to the furthest holes on the hub and bulkhead, as this helps to reduce the camber change on the suspension.
As I'm already on the longest settings on the 416, lowering the rear rollcentre on the outer hub helped, as this also flattened the link, reducing the camber change.

The delam I'm pretty sure was due to an impact, probably caught it when I was flying through the air, and into race control... Motor heat wasn't an issue, as my Nosram4.5 was running pretty cool compared to some of the Peak 4.5's I was comparing against (I was running @ 7.4 FDR, the Orions at 8.2!)

HiH
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:57 AM
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Setup from the above post

Last edited by TryHard; 02-29-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:35 PM
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I just got my 416 today and have 2 questions about the arms and the arm mount shims. I am putting on the Short Reversible Suspension arms and I am not sure if I am looking at the top of the car if I should be able to read the D-2 and D-1. Currently I can see this from the top.

When trying to shim the 4.5mm total with the stock blocks the suspension arms do not move up and down free. When I use 4mm it works fine. Is there something I did wrong that would cause that extra .5mm to make the arms bind? Would I be ok using just 4mm? (Step 11 in the book.)
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Travis S View Post
When trying to shim the 4.5mm total with the stock blocks the suspension arms do not move up and down free. When I use 4mm it works fine. Is there something I did wrong that would cause that extra .5mm to make the arms bind? Would I be ok using just 4mm? (Step 11 in the book.)
Dont worry about the binding. it comes loose after 1 lap.
go for a lap and remove the suspension and u should see it move freely. if it doesnt, then u can choose to shim it to how u like it. everytime i rebuild my car, the arms doesnt move very freely.. but it will loosen up eventually.
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Travis S View Post
I just got my 416 today and have 2 questions about the arms and the arm mount shims. I am putting on the Short Reversible Suspension arms and I am not sure if I am looking at the top of the car if I should be able to read the D-2 and D-1. Currently I can see this from the top.

When trying to shim the 4.5mm total with the stock blocks the suspension arms do not move up and down free. When I use 4mm it works fine. Is there something I did wrong that would cause that extra .5mm to make the arms bind? Would I be ok using just 4mm? (Step 11 in the book.)
You want to make sure that the arms have the outermost hole on the arms facing forward... if that makes sense
IIRC, having one side D1 and the other with D2 showing means the arms are mounted up properly. It's slightly more difficult with the short LWT, as they are perfectly symetrical... whereas the old longer arms aren't

As for the shimming, run it first, then check again. If it's still tight, just run the arms over some sand paper till it's free.

HiH
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:34 AM
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I don't use 4.5mm worth of shims on my arms (as you mentioned about the binding). I think I use 4.2~4.3mm worth of shims. The .2 or .3mm shim is from the small shim bag.
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