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Tamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X

Old 09-13-2010, 07:45 AM
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Default roll center theory question??

Hopefully you guys can follow me here...

As we know, you can raise or lower your roll center by moving the camber links up or down and/or raising or lowering the suspension mount blocks. For the sake of my hypothetical question I'll stick to front suspension and the inner camber link position.

Scenario A: I use 3 mm of spacers on the inner camber link and have 0mm of spacers on the suspension mounts for a roll center value of X.

Scenario B: I use 4 mm of spacers on the inner camber link and have .5mm of spacers on the suspension mounts this for a roll center value of X.

So even though the roll center values of scenarios A and b are the same (X), what would be the difference in handling? Would this change camber gain? What other effects would it have?
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:12 AM
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Default Tamiya Gold Springs?

Anyone know what the spring rate is of the old Tamiya gold springs that came with the TA04 (or where they fall in the progression of the typical Tamiya red-yellow-blue-white stiffness)?
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
Hopefully you guys can follow me here...

As we know, you can raise or lower your roll center by moving the camber links up or down and/or raising or lowering the suspension mount blocks. For the sake of my hypothetical question I'll stick to front suspension and the inner camber link position.

Scenario A: I use 3 mm of spacers on the inner camber link and have 0mm of spacers on the suspension mounts for a roll center value of X.

Scenario B: I use 4 mm of spacers on the inner camber link and have .5mm of spacers on the suspension mounts this for a roll center value of X.

So even though the roll center values of scenarios A and b are the same (X), what would be the difference in handling? Would this change camber gain? What other effects would it have?
I don't think the roll centre value would be the same in those two scenarios, but leaving that aside the second scenario would have less camber gain.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:37 PM
  #9694  
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Default TRF416X upgrade to 417

Looking at the new car, the changes are the lipo chassis, the motor mount, the rear diff.
I have a TRF416X and want to upgrade it wit the Lipo chassis, does someone know if the TRF416X owners are going to be blessed with a "upgrade" kit?
I bought this car few months ago and really don't want to sell it to get another car, I am not in that rush for buying every new car launched, but would like to keep it up to date.
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Fabricio View Post
Looking at the new car, the changes are the lipo chassis, the motor mount, the rear diff.
I have a TRF416X and want to upgrade it wit the Lipo chassis, does someone know if the TRF416X owners are going to be blessed with a "upgrade" kit?
I bought this car few months ago and really don't want to sell it to get another car, I am not in that rush for buying every new car launched, but would like to keep it up to date.
I wouldn't count on it. To my knowledge Tamiya has never offered "upgrade kits" between the generations of their cars.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:10 PM
  #9696  
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
nope they are smaller
Thanks Man,

Anybody know where to get a set of 416 shocks?
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:27 PM
  #9697  
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Originally Posted by Owen RaCing View Post
Thanks Man,

Anybody know where to get a set of 416 shocks?
lol, everyone bought them for their xrays
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fabricio View Post
Looking at the new car, the changes are the lipo chassis, the motor mount, the rear diff.
I have a TRF416X and want to upgrade it wit the Lipo chassis, does someone know if the TRF416X owners are going to be blessed with a "upgrade" kit?
I bought this car few months ago and really don't want to sell it to get another car, I am not in that rush for buying every new car launched, but would like to keep it up to date.

Afraid u will need to get the spares, which should be rear bulkheads, motormount chassis and top deck, and pulleys, don't get the diff a gear one will do
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:29 PM
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Does anyone know if Marc Rheinhard's (or Victor Wilck's or another Tamiya sponsored driver's) setup for the IIC in Vegas is posted anywhere yet? I'm more interested in the # of turn motors that they were running in the Mod class. Thanks!
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
lol, everyone bought them for their xrays
Yea, and now i'm screwed
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:31 PM
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RC Mart usually has a good supply, I assume you want the black ones

The team normally runs 5.5t motors for rubber on carpet
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
Hopefully you guys can follow me here...

As we know, you can raise or lower your roll center by moving the camber links up or down and/or raising or lowering the suspension mount blocks. For the sake of my hypothetical question I'll stick to front suspension and the inner camber link position.

Scenario A: I use 3 mm of spacers on the inner camber link and have 0mm of spacers on the suspension mounts for a roll center value of X.

Scenario B: I use 4 mm of spacers on the inner camber link and have .5mm of spacers on the suspension mounts this for a roll center value of X.

So even though the roll center values of scenarios A and b are the same (X), what would be the difference in handling? Would this change camber gain? What other effects would it have?
As I suspected the roll centres are completely different, -1.1mm for scenario A, -0.73mm for scenario B, so scenario 1 would also roll more in addition to having more camber gain.

Roll centre calculator:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/5382752-post4285.html
http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=145
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:01 PM
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Changing roll center via the camber link is very different than the suspension blocks. Raising/lowering the blocks makes very large changes, while altering camber link angle makes a relatively small difference. Here is a drawing I made that illustrates this...

BTW: You may also notice that raising the upper link lowers the roll center, while raising the suspension blocks raises roll center...

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Old 09-13-2010, 08:21 PM
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I ran Jilles Snowbirds setup at IIC and the car was magical. I, however, was not. I made the A in stock and B in super stock. I don't think I put in a single clean run in either class. The car was there when I'd start to push, and I could usually get away from people. But, there was always some board there to ruin my day.
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
I wouldn't count on it. To my knowledge Tamiya has never offered "upgrade kits" between the generations of their cars.
Yes I think we cannot count on it, thanks for the reply, I think I am going to buy the Lipo kit and the gear diff if they made one.
Can wait to get another car.
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