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Old 11-19-2009, 04:54 PM   #7156
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Is the TRF416 hard to tame? Drive? Setup?

I am just wondering if you will be the one who will adjust to the car or the car will follow you?

For me, so far, having difficult to understand the car's problem, for example getting or thinking why the rear kicks off when on power exiting/inside the corners.

But so far, I have kinda tamed it to my likings but it still lacks something. I am an aggressive driver when it comes to cornering.
im also having that same problem since i changed to corally springs
and a brushed motor...ill do some testing this weekend
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:54 PM   #7157
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Originally Posted by Xanavi_R34 View Post
Is the TRF416 hard to tame? Drive? Setup?

I am just wondering if you will be the one who will adjust to the car or the car will follow you?

For me, so far, having difficult to understand the car's problem, for example getting or thinking why the rear kicks off when on power exiting/inside the corners.

But so far, I have kinda tamed it to my likings but it still lacks something. I am an aggressive driver when it comes to cornering.
When I have rear grip issues, first thing I look at are the rear downstops. After that I usually tune the front shocks, to try to stop the rear from unloading.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:37 PM   #7158
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Originally Posted by Xanavi_R34 View Post
Is the TRF416 hard to tame? Drive? Setup?

I am just wondering if you will be the one who will adjust to the car or the car will follow you?

For me, so far, having difficult to understand the car's problem, for example getting or thinking why the rear kicks off when on power exiting/inside the corners.

But so far, I have kinda tamed it to my likings but it still lacks something. I am an aggressive driver when it comes to cornering.
A few months ago I would have said "no." But, recently, a respected local racer that's owned and conquered every modern touring car in the last 10 years has been running a 416, and really struggling to calm it down. Since this is the only car I've driven the last few years, I can't help but defer to his experience in the matter.

It seems like my car is forever trying to over rotate at the end of a high-speed sweeper when I have to slow down to make the turn. And that's the spot on the track with the most grip. I suppose maybe the aggressive nature of this car is part of what makes it so fast on the days when you do manage to tame it.

The changes to the 416X rear diff position were said to add more rear traction. I wonder if they're on to something? Though the TRF team early in this season with the new car doesn't seem quite as dominant as the last few years. It'll be interesting to see if the stick with the X or fall back on the WE for the carpet.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:27 PM   #7159
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So it is not just me who encounters this kind of problem?? I thought it is just me

Anyway, I uses FOW and after a lot of runs, just to get the kind of aggressiveness that I like, I did manage to get it. After tweaking lots of parts like the shock positions, ride height, camber, toe in and out, ball differentials, etc etc: the droop (this was my 2nd to the last option and kinda got what I was looking for) and last would be the springs (I was using front Tamiya Blue springs and Rear Tamiya White Springs: Changed it to Tamiya Yellow up front and Tamiya Blue up rear.) And now I am more aggressive as before.

Although, I am still not content with what I have right now and still want to have more aggressiveness.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:55 PM   #7160
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Originally Posted by Xanavi_R34 View Post
So it is not just me who encounters this kind of problem?? I thought it is just me

Anyway, I uses FOW and after a lot of runs, just to get the kind of aggressiveness that I like, I did manage to get it. After tweaking lots of parts like the shock positions, ride height, camber, toe in and out, ball differentials, etc etc: the droop (this was my 2nd to the last option and kinda got what I was looking for) and last would be the springs (I was using front Tamiya Blue springs and Rear Tamiya White Springs: Changed it to Tamiya Yellow up front and Tamiya Blue up rear.) And now I am more aggressive as before.

Although, I am still not content with what I have right now and still want to have more aggressiveness.
Maybe your springs are the problem? White/front - Blue/Rear or Blue/Front - Yellow/Rear would be better than the other way around like what you posted?
HTHs
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:30 PM   #7161
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xanavi: agree with RCManila. Flip your springs around so that the front is stiffer/a step up in terms of tension. this way you get more response in the front and plus you also gain some rear bite with the softer spring in the rear esepically in the sweeper where you say you're having problems.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:34 PM   #7162
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Originally Posted by Xanavi_R34 View Post
So it is not just me who encounters this kind of problem?? I thought it is just me

Anyway, I uses FOW and after a lot of runs, just to get the kind of aggressiveness that I like, I did manage to get it. After tweaking lots of parts like the shock positions, ride height, camber, toe in and out, ball differentials, etc etc: the droop (this was my 2nd to the last option and kinda got what I was looking for) and last would be the springs (I was using front Tamiya Blue springs and Rear Tamiya White Springs: Changed it to Tamiya Yellow up front and Tamiya Blue up rear.) And now I am more aggressive as before.

Although, I am still not content with what I have right now and still want to have more aggressiveness.
We usually run the harder springs in the front (or sometimes the same sprins front and rear, but I have never seen anyone run with harder springs in the rear), in your case the white in the front and the blue rear. If you drive on asphalt, try the HPI springs (blue, silver and gold). The Tamiya White/Blue combination usually works well on carpet.


...
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:41 PM   #7163
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I tried the other way arounf (harder up front and softer up rear) and didn't like how it handles, so went back to my current setup.

It tend to have more understeer when harder springs up front and I am more comfortable with harder at the rear. But will try harder springs up front and will tell what is/are the results

Thanks.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:21 AM   #7164
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Originally Posted by Xanavi_R34 View Post
I tried the other way arounf (harder up front and softer up rear) and didn't like how it handles, so went back to my current setup.

It tend to have more understeer when harder springs up front and I am more comfortable with harder at the rear. But will try harder springs up front and will tell what is/are the results

Thanks.
Just think about it, when you brake at the end of a straight, the weight moves forward to the front wheels...if you have softer springs up front, even more weight goes to the front and less is left on the rear wheels reducing grip for the rear...


...
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:44 AM   #7165
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There is a new 416X coming in a few weeks...ads for it in many places...

http://www.racingfactory.fi/products...sis-Kit-102414

http://www.planet-rc.ch/product_info...assis-Kit.html


...
We should receive the car next week...
Can't wait!
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:03 AM   #7166
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Here is a short clip on how my kit performs before. It was edited. It is a lot different now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2oWKydFL4
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:43 AM   #7167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanavi_R34 View Post
I tried the other way arounf (harder up front and softer up rear) and didn't like how it handles, so went back to my current setup.

It tend to have more understeer when harder springs up front and I am more comfortable with harder at the rear. But will try harder springs up front and will tell what is/are the results

Thanks.
like what stein said, you are letting your tires load up your front end too much with a set up like that. the rear isnt rolling as much to create the traction you are looking for. if you feel it underteers with the white up front, its likely understeering at mid corner but your entry should be improved with the added response the harder spring gives. so if mid corner is the problem, then tweak somthing else like less droop in front or maybe lay the front shock down one hole. there's so much you can do to compensate for that ... roll centers, camber, etc ... the stiffer spring in the rear is just off ....

you should drop by track on a race day so you get better help from the racers.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:32 AM   #7168
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Thanks for that, will try it if I have the chance

Unfortunately, I can't drop by for now at the track on a race day because it is held during Saturdays and for that, I have OJT

Maybe if I am done with it, I will drop by more often
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:24 AM   #7169
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Thanks for that, will try it if I have the chance

Unfortunately, I can't drop by for now at the track on a race day because it is held during Saturdays and for that, I have OJT

Maybe if I am done with it, I will drop by more often
Swap your springs around and put some anti-dive into the car.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:25 AM   #7170
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Well, I race with Syndrome on a weekly basis and have some of my own personal insights into the car. I recently moved over to the 416WE and I can tell you that the setup on this car is a lot different then other cars in my experience. Overall I would say that the car feels pretty stiff on the track. At first I tried the Negs carpet setup from Corey and found the car to be very fast, but loose and hard to drive consistently. I worked hard around that basic setup to find a cure to the get the car to feel more direct on the track. It always felt very floaty to me and never really stuck regardless of what I did.

So I started to experiment with a softer overall setup and I felt like I was heading the right direction. Now the car feels really good and has that very direct feeling on the track and i have picked up quite a bit of time on the track. My car is not the fastest at the track but is so easy to drive it will allow you to put together a really consistent race. Last night I strung 35 laps all within 1 or two tenths every lap. The balance on the rear front to rear feels really great and creates an easiness to the drive of the car.

So what did I do to get my car to feel like this...

40wt Losi oil all the way around
Yellow Tamiya springs in the front
Red Tamiya springs in the rear
no rear sway bar
medium front sway (yellow)
Mazda Speed 6 body with std wing
Aluminum 4* C-Hubs (square)
1E in the rear no shims
1D's up front no shims
Camber links are pretty flat both front and rear
shocks are in the middle of both front and rear towers
Diff up front, but you could also run a Spool based on what you like.
Jaco Blues (full rear...half front)

The body you choose will make a huge difference in how the car feels. If you want to car to rotate more go to an LTC-R. If you want it even more stuck go to a Mazda 6.

The car is very nimble and carries a good amount of corner speed, but if you like a car that rotates really easily you probably wont like this exact setup. Our track is medium/high bite CRC carpet with a good groove.

I could probably provide an exact setup tonight if anyone wants it.

I know this setup might break a bunch of the standard 416 Tamiya setup rules, but give it a try you might be surprised...
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