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Tamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X

Old 10-21-2009, 08:07 AM
  #6886  
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OK so I have a couple of questions for the Tamiya experts...

I have a 416WE running Jaco Blues on CRC carpet. Our grip is pretty high in the groove but outside the groove it is pretty loose. Since our carpet is pretty new we have not quite built up a full groove everywhere just yet. With that said I am having issues with the 416 feeling floaty on the track. Does not feel very connected and stuck like it should feel. What I am trying to figure out is what people have done to get the car to be more stuck. The car feels like it is not generating enough grip both front and rear.


Setup at a high level
416WE
spool up front
50wt up front with Whites
40wt in the rear with blues
blocks flat both front and rear
1F in the rear (1XA and 1F)
1D in the front
3mm on the inside rear link
3mm on the inside front link
links long in the rear and short in the front
Medium sway in the front and small in the rear

My first thought would be to go softer all the way around, but I am just not sure this is the correct approach. any suggestions?
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:26 AM
  #6887  
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Originally Posted by artwork View Post
OK so I have a couple of questions for the Tamiya experts...

I have a 416WE running Jaco Blues on CRC carpet. Our grip is pretty high in the groove but outside the groove it is pretty loose. Since our carpet is pretty new we have not quite built up a full groove everywhere just yet. With that said I am having issues with the 416 feeling floaty on the track. Does not feel very connected and stuck like it should feel. What I am trying to figure out is what people have done to get the car to be more stuck. The car feels like it is not generating enough grip both front and rear.


Setup at a high level
416WE
spool up front
50wt up front with Whites
40wt in the rear with blues
blocks flat both front and rear
1F in the rear (1XA and 1F)
1D in the front
3mm on the inside rear link
3mm on the inside front link
links long in the rear and short in the front
Medium sway in the front and small in the rear

My first thought would be to go softer all the way around, but I am just not sure this is the correct approach. any suggestions?


I would try a softer tire first, Jaco Blues are 32's. Try the Jaco Greens which are 28's or a tire from Sorex to see if that helps.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:29 AM
  #6888  
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Originally Posted by DaSkills View Post
I would try a softer tire first, Jaco Blues are 32's. Try the Jaco Greens which are 28's or a tire from Sorex to see if that helps.
I can try some Sorex 28's just to try it but we are spec'd on Jaco Blues so I am gonna need to make it work on the blues.

Thanks
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:41 AM
  #6889  
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Originally Posted by artwork View Post
I can try some Sorex 28's just to try it but we are spec'd on Jaco Blues so I am gonna need to make it work on the blues.

Thanks
Ok, then you might want to soften it up a little to see if you can get the tires to grip.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:45 AM
  #6890  
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IMHO, I like the car a little softer, as well as more narrow blocks in the front ( c )( c ) .

Originally Posted by artwork View Post
OK so I have a couple of questions for the Tamiya experts...

I have a 416WE running Jaco Blues on CRC carpet. Our grip is pretty high in the groove but outside the groove it is pretty loose. Since our carpet is pretty new we have not quite built up a full groove everywhere just yet. With that said I am having issues with the 416 feeling floaty on the track. Does not feel very connected and stuck like it should feel. What I am trying to figure out is what people have done to get the car to be more stuck. The car feels like it is not generating enough grip both front and rear.


Setup at a high level
416WE
spool up front
50wt up front with Whites
40wt in the rear with blues
blocks flat both front and rear
1F in the rear (1XA and 1F)
1D in the front
3mm on the inside rear link
3mm on the inside front link
links long in the rear and short in the front
Medium sway in the front and small in the rear

My first thought would be to go softer all the way around, but I am just not sure this is the correct approach. any suggestions?
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:45 AM
  #6891  
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Originally Posted by artwork View Post
OK so I have a couple of questions for the Tamiya experts...

I have a 416WE running Jaco Blues on CRC carpet. Our grip is pretty high in the groove but outside the groove it is pretty loose. Since our carpet is pretty new we have not quite built up a full groove everywhere just yet. With that said I am having issues with the 416 feeling floaty on the track. Does not feel very connected and stuck like it should feel. What I am trying to figure out is what people have done to get the car to be more stuck. The car feels like it is not generating enough grip both front and rear.


Setup at a high level
416WE
spool up front
50wt up front with Whites
40wt in the rear with blues
blocks flat both front and rear
1F in the rear (1XA and 1F)
1D in the front
3mm on the inside rear link
3mm on the inside front link
links long in the rear and short in the front
Medium sway in the front and small in the rear

My first thought would be to go softer all the way around, but I am just not sure this is the correct approach. any suggestions?
Try 30wt oil all around.
Build your shocks with 0 rebound (1mm vent hole).
Rear shock top mount 2nd hole from the bottom.
Front shock 3rd hole from the bottom or mid hole.
Rear sus block change to a E or a D from the F.
5.5 mm ride height with 6mm droop in front and 5mm droop in rear (off of bottom of chassis to end of sus arm).
.5mm anti-dive but no other spacers to raise the roll center front or rear.
2mm camber in rear 1.5mm camber in the front.
Set your expo to -20 or -25, reduce your steering rate to complete a circle in the narrowest straight part of the track.
I do not see any listing for the rear hub spacers, try 3mm with the +1mm ball link on top.
Sauce your tires.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:29 AM
  #6892  
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we have a new track here too and the grip line is coming slowly

this is my set up

white front blue rear springs
40 oil all round with small amout of rebound
2 degrees camber front
1 degree camber rear
1D 1D front 1XA 1D rear mounts
0.5mm under all blocks apart from the rear most Front block that has 1mm
3.5mm rear inner camber link spacer
4.5mm front inner camber link spacer
0 degrees front toe
4mm steering spacers not 5mm (makes the steering softer)
middle hole on the shock mounts upper
and 28 sorex tyres
i have grip roll at the end of the straigh when i am full gas but if i roll the throttle i slight amount it is ok , but off line it is better

i smear the rear tyres fully 20 mins before i do the fronts and leave the fronts 5mins then clean and drive
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:11 PM
  #6893  
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artwork - most all the suggestions are good. I find that when my car starts to suck some key areas always seem to help regardless of setup

The diff- make sure it's smooth and free. A good diff makes the car feel a lot more planted and it rolls through the corner better.

Check all the hingepins and make sure they are straight and not binding. Start by removing the shocks and making sure the arms flop around and don't get stuck
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:43 PM
  #6894  
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Sounds good guys I think I have enough to get started...thanks
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:09 PM
  #6895  
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Originally Posted by sidecarphil1 View Post
we have a new track here too and the grip line is coming slowly

this is my set up

white front blue rear springs
40 oil all round with small amout of rebound
2 degrees camber front
1 degree camber rear
1D 1D front 1XA 1D rear mounts
0.5mm under all blocks apart from the rear most Front block that has 1mm
3.5mm rear inner camber link spacer
4.5mm front inner camber link spacer
0 degrees front toe
4mm steering spacers not 5mm (makes the steering softer)
middle hole on the shock mounts upper
and 28 sorex tyres
i have grip roll at the end of the straigh when i am full gas but if i roll the throttle i slight amount it is ok , but off line it is better

i smear the rear tyres fully 20 mins before i do the fronts and leave the fronts 5mins then clean and drive
Increase your roll center spacing to 1mm all around and take .5mm out of your front camber, increase your roll bars to the biggest in the front and the medium one in the back. Increase your droop settings front and rear. If anything make the shocks 0 rebound, it really plants the car and makes it much more predictable.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:42 PM
  #6896  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Increase your roll center spacing to 1mm all around and take .5mm out of your front camber, increase your roll bars to the biggest in the front and the medium one in the back. Increase your droop settings front and rear. If anything make the shocks 0 rebound, it really plants the car and makes it much more predictable.
i got the biggest roll bar front and lightest rear

increase roll centre ?? with spacers under the blocks ??

when you say take 0.5mm out of the front camber do you mean make it 1.5mm

increasing droop to 7 front and 6 rear ?? or 5 front 4 rear ?? i have 6 front and 5 rear
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:06 PM
  #6897  
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Originally Posted by sidecarphil1 View Post
i got the biggest roll bar front and lightest rear

increase roll centre ?? with spacers under the blocks ??

when you say take 0.5mm out of the front camber do you mean make it 1.5mm

increasing droop to 7 front and 6 rear ?? or 5 front 4 rear ?? i have 6 front and 5 rear
Yes, 1mm spacers under the blocks but keep the .5mm antidive in the front.
Yes 1.5mm camber from 2mm.
Try the suspension mount spacers with the same droop as you have now, you'll have to reset them with that change anyways, and then fine tune from there with the droop.
Does the car flip on the turn in of highspeed corner, like a snap roll? Is your steering cranked when it happens? Just trying to get a visual of what its doing.
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Old 10-21-2009, 03:29 PM
  #6898  
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Thanks to Bradd I received one of these Demon lipo trays. I actually have the original TRF416, but it still fits, the only thing you do different is screw the lipo tray into the center post for the motor mount from the top, so that there are two screws - one from the bottom through the chassis and one from the top through the lipo tray. I will post a picture this weekend.

Originally Posted by Besercoe View Post
I recently found perhaps the best lipo tray ever made. Just arived today.
Demon products out of Taiwan, but its been difficult getting hold of them.
Mounts to the centreline of the chassis, with the tray sitting up off the lower deck to prevent tweak or change in chassis stiffness.
Originally Posted by Besercoe View Post
Mounted up the little fella last night, it took a little bit of trimming as the mounts were close to the belt, and a liberal use of shims.

You can see the tray mounts to the centreline, and does not touch the chassis at all. Brace holds pack in, but is not pressing on the battery, car can flex without binding on the tray or the battery.
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Old 10-21-2009, 03:50 PM
  #6899  
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Brad had none of these left and i wanted to grab one

Where are these available at?

I asked Brad where he got them from but didnt reply

I see that they are at PresisionRC, i have emailed them a few times now and no response, so a little weary of sending money if they cant even answer emails.

Thanks






Thanks to Bradd I received one of these Demon lipo trays. I actually have the original TRF416, but it still fits, the only thing you do different is screw the lipo tray into the center post for the motor mount from the top, so that there are two screws - one from the bottom through the chassis and one from the top through the lipo tray. I will post a picture this weekend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Besercoe
I recently found perhaps the best lipo tray ever made. Just arived today.
Demon products out of Taiwan, but its been difficult getting hold of them.
Mounts to the centreline of the chassis, with the tray sitting up off the lower deck to prevent tweak or change in chassis stiffness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Besercoe
Mounted up the little fella last night, it took a little bit of trimming as the mounts were close to the belt, and a liberal use of shims.

You can see the tray mounts to the centreline, and does not touch the chassis at all. Brace holds pack in, but is not pressing on the battery, car can flex without binding on the tray or the battery.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
Brad had none of these left and i wanted to grab one

Where are these available at?

I asked Brad where he got them from but didnt reply

I see that they are at PresisionRC, i have emailed them a few times now and no response, so a little weary of sending money if they cant even answer emails.

Thanks
I am looking at getting some more. They are a strange bunch such a great product should be widely available.

If people could email me on [email protected] so i can gauge demand.
Note they are not cheap $50 AUD for the tray and another $50 AUD for the brace.
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