4LikesTamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X
07-21-2009, 10:42 AM
#5971
dont think it will make the chassis more flexable ,
the front / rear mount is only touching in 2 small places these are connected by 4 and a larger contact area
the front / rear mount is only touching in 2 small places these are connected by 4 and a larger contact area
07-21-2009, 10:46 AM
#5972
That's true!
How would we use spacers? You'd need 4 spacers instead of 2 for the F/R block...
How would we use spacers? You'd need 4 spacers instead of 2 for the F/R block...
07-21-2009, 12:13 PM
#5973
By using those instead of the stock pivot blocks, you are taking away one of the only left to right side connecting links along the chassis. The WE upper deck takes away the left to right side link that ran along the back end of the car between the rear belt, and look at all the extra traction that gave the car.
If you switch to the individual blocks, there would be no solid left to right side links on the chassis except the pivot blocks at the very front and rear of the car, and the shock towers. This would allow the chassis to flex even more.
One tuning resource I find myself using all the time now is switching between the 416 and the 416WE upper decks. The standard 416 deck really helps the car rotate better, and the WE upper deck gives a good amount of rear traction. Definitely worth trying out, just as I will test with the new blocks to see if I can further tune the chassis flex around my driving style.
If you switch to the individual blocks, there would be no solid left to right side links on the chassis except the pivot blocks at the very front and rear of the car, and the shock towers. This would allow the chassis to flex even more.
One tuning resource I find myself using all the time now is switching between the 416 and the 416WE upper decks. The standard 416 deck really helps the car rotate better, and the WE upper deck gives a good amount of rear traction. Definitely worth trying out, just as I will test with the new blocks to see if I can further tune the chassis flex around my driving style.
07-21-2009, 01:18 PM
#5974
Originally Posted by Randy Caster
By using those instead of the stock pivot blocks, you are taking away one of the only left to right side connecting links along the chassis. The WE upper deck takes away the left to right side link that ran along the back end of the car between the rear belt, and look at all the extra traction that gave the car.
If you switch to the individual blocks, there would be no solid left to right side links on the chassis except the pivot blocks at the very front and rear of the car, and the shock towers. This would allow the chassis to flex even more.
One tuning resource I find myself using all the time now is switching between the 416 and the 416WE upper decks. The standard 416 deck really helps the car rotate better, and the WE upper deck gives a good amount of rear traction. Definitely worth trying out, just as I will test with the new blocks to see if I can further tune the chassis flex around my driving style.
If you switch to the individual blocks, there would be no solid left to right side links on the chassis except the pivot blocks at the very front and rear of the car, and the shock towers. This would allow the chassis to flex even more.
One tuning resource I find myself using all the time now is switching between the 416 and the 416WE upper decks. The standard 416 deck really helps the car rotate better, and the WE upper deck gives a good amount of rear traction. Definitely worth trying out, just as I will test with the new blocks to see if I can further tune the chassis flex around my driving style.
Yadda yadda yadda .... I'm not buying that .
Its for cutting production cost. Fewer parts to make. Makes the kit more cost effective.
The Chassis will not lose any structural rigidity. The box that makes the chassis so stiff (or not so stiff) is made of the chassis, the 2 bulkheads and the upper deck. The mounts are not a factor as they are only attached to the chassis on both occasions. The manner in which the arms are fastened to the chassis and the stress it may see do not effect the pivots. They in no way hinder or promote flex in any way. But it does however make more room for a bigger diff pulley. And perhaps now the belt has a bit more room, especially if you want to run a lot of spacers under the mount. Oh, and I bet you will be seeing 0.5mm and 1.0mm shims soon.
07-21-2009, 02:06 PM
#5975
Originally Posted by John St.Amant
Yadda yadda yadda .... I'm not buying that .
Its for cutting production cost. Fewer parts to make. Makes the kit more cost effective.
The Chassis will not lose any structural rigidity. The box that makes the chassis so stiff (or not so stiff) is made of the chassis, the 2 bulkheads and the upper deck. The mounts are not a factor as they are only attached to the chassis on both occasions. The manner in which the arms are fastened to the chassis and the stress it may see do not effect the pivots. They in no way hinder or promote flex in any way. But it does however make more room for a bigger diff pulley. And perhaps now the belt has a bit more room, especially if you want to run a lot of spacers under the mount. Oh, and I bet you will be seeing 0.5mm and 1.0mm shims soon.
Its for cutting production cost. Fewer parts to make. Makes the kit more cost effective.
The Chassis will not lose any structural rigidity. The box that makes the chassis so stiff (or not so stiff) is made of the chassis, the 2 bulkheads and the upper deck. The mounts are not a factor as they are only attached to the chassis on both occasions. The manner in which the arms are fastened to the chassis and the stress it may see do not effect the pivots. They in no way hinder or promote flex in any way. But it does however make more room for a bigger diff pulley. And perhaps now the belt has a bit more room, especially if you want to run a lot of spacers under the mount. Oh, and I bet you will be seeing 0.5mm and 1.0mm shims soon.
major car manufacturers have been doing the same for many years , i have ordered the seperate arm mounts as i want to try differant things as thay are released , i dont know if it will give the cassis more or less flex but if it works who cares ??
the TRF416 is a great chassis and it keeps making me smile when i drive it
07-21-2009, 02:31 PM
#5976
John, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I make reference to the front option bar available for the Xray car, this item definately changes the front end feel of that car and I believe its the same theory.
07-21-2009, 02:36 PM
#5977
In a hobby where a .5mm adjustment can make a big difference I'm finding it hard to believe that it's so hard to see this as another tuning option.
Look at the latest pictures from the ETS of Victor Wilck's car. Notice there is no brace on the steering posts. This is yet another way to get more flex from the car. We have never used the screw on that brace to the upper deck, but using, or not using that brace will affect the feel of the car.
See the new mounts however you like, but for now, it just gives me 1 more adjustment to get the car that much closer to perfect
Look at the latest pictures from the ETS of Victor Wilck's car. Notice there is no brace on the steering posts. This is yet another way to get more flex from the car. We have never used the screw on that brace to the upper deck, but using, or not using that brace will affect the feel of the car.
See the new mounts however you like, but for now, it just gives me 1 more adjustment to get the car that much closer to perfect
07-21-2009, 02:39 PM
#5978
Originally Posted by Randy Caster
07-21-2009, 02:40 PM
#5979
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone
John, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I make reference to the front option bar available for the Xray car, this item definately changes the front end feel of that car and I believe its the same theory.
Isn't that for the top deck?
Thats totally different man...
the bridge that we are talking about does not attach to the bulkheads.
It sits firmly on the chassis and does not effect torsional flex. The flex we adjust is between the upper deck and the bulkheads and chassis. Not the lower suspension mounts.
I wish i could draw it our on a napkin for you but I'm almost computer illiterate.
07-21-2009, 02:43 PM
#5980
Originally Posted by Randy Caster
In a hobby where a .5mm adjustment can make a big difference I'm finding it hard to believe that it's so hard to see this as another tuning option.
Look at the latest pictures from the ETS of Victor Wilck's car. Notice there is no brace on the steering posts. This is yet another way to get more flex from the car. We have never used the screw on that brace to the upper deck, but using, or not using that brace will affect the feel of the car.
See the new mounts however you like, but for now, it just gives me 1 more adjustment to get the car that much closer to perfect
Look at the latest pictures from the ETS of Victor Wilck's car. Notice there is no brace on the steering posts. This is yet another way to get more flex from the car. We have never used the screw on that brace to the upper deck, but using, or not using that brace will affect the feel of the car.
See the new mounts however you like, but for now, it just gives me 1 more adjustment to get the car that much closer to perfect
I have to agree with Randy, the difference between the two top decks is very noticeable on the track. On our high-grip carpet, the long one makes the rear end feel a little too stuck. Though I'm curious to see if I could run it with less rear toe or something and get the car to be free but not loose. I've been struggling to find that balance.
07-21-2009, 02:47 PM
#5981
Just to be sure that my posts aren't just speculation as to how the car will react with the new pivot blocks, I just ordered part #'s 54171 through 54175 so that I can test all of the new parts firsthand and give actual feedback from the track. Not sure if I'll have them by Thurs, but if I do, I'll be at the track all day and will be able to give feedback that night.
07-21-2009, 02:49 PM
#5982
Originally Posted by John St.Amant
Bar?
Isn't that for the top deck?
Thats totally different man...
the bridge that we are talking about does not attach to the bulkheads.
It sits firmly on the chassis and does not effect torsional flex. The flex we adjust is between the upper deck and the bulkheads and chassis. Not the lower suspension mounts.
I wish i could draw it our on a napkin for you but I'm almost computer illiterate.
Isn't that for the top deck?
Thats totally different man...
the bridge that we are talking about does not attach to the bulkheads.
It sits firmly on the chassis and does not effect torsional flex. The flex we adjust is between the upper deck and the bulkheads and chassis. Not the lower suspension mounts.
I wish i could draw it our on a napkin for you but I'm almost computer illiterate.
07-21-2009, 02:50 PM
#5983
Originally Posted by Randy Caster
Just to be sure that my posts aren't just speculation as to how the car will react with the new pivot blocks, I just ordered part #'s 54171 through 54175 so that I can test all of the new parts firsthand and give actual feedback from the track. Not sure if I'll have them by Thurs, but if I do, I'll be at the track all day and will be able to give feedback that night.
how you liking west coast RC? great to have an indoor track to test and practice on.
07-21-2009, 02:54 PM
#5984
I'll get your PM in a min Chris.
BTW, I was at a parking lot race this weekend, had a lot of fun and the car was really good. For anyone interested in the setup I used check out my latest blog on teamtrf.com
A video of the main: http://gallery.me.com/iigq4u#100510 (kinda disapointed in the low mod turnout that came to this race, a lot more promised to show but didn't.)
I'll try to get on the forums more often, just finished moving and working on multiple projects as well as work, and a lot of time at the track lately, I've been busy!
BTW, I was at a parking lot race this weekend, had a lot of fun and the car was really good. For anyone interested in the setup I used check out my latest blog on teamtrf.com
A video of the main: http://gallery.me.com/iigq4u#100510 (kinda disapointed in the low mod turnout that came to this race, a lot more promised to show but didn't.)
I'll try to get on the forums more often, just finished moving and working on multiple projects as well as work, and a lot of time at the track lately, I've been busy!
07-21-2009, 03:22 PM
#5985
Originally Posted by Randy Caster
Just to be sure that my posts aren't just speculation as to how the car will react with the new pivot blocks, I just ordered part #'s 54171 through 54175 so that I can test all of the new parts firsthand and give actual feedback from the track. Not sure if I'll have them by Thurs, but if I do, I'll be at the track all day and will be able to give feedback that night.
