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Tamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X

Old 03-05-2008, 05:03 AM
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let say i adjust the arm sweep but still use the same toe angle. what will happen?
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:22 AM
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thnx ed.

on a separate note, from my experience, and from those of you who've posted your experience with the 416, it can tend to be tail happy at times and/or a bit pushy mid-corner. this is probably a good thing for outdoor asphalt, not so good on indoor ozite.
what i don't get is why people are not raising the rear roll center to help with stability? look at jilles setup and he has fairly parallel links in the back (at DHI cup). wouldn't a low rear roll center give it less grip?
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:17 AM
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Don't forget that Jilles and them were racing 5cell. Lighter cars. Less weight to throw around in the corners. A higher inner link or "parallel" will help the car rotate better in the corners. But also remember that Vik was running a higher roll center in the rear with 0.5mm shims under the suspension blocks.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:20 AM
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Looks like new shock towers for the 416.... from JAAD....

http://www.redrc.net/2008/03/jaad-ra...ers/#more-8270
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:23 AM
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Actually, a flat link will be more to do with camber change than roll centre. For a smoother rear end, a flat link is best, as it reduces the amount of camber change.
The roll centres on the rear of the car are actually being run higher, as most setups seem to run with 0.5mm shims under the rear blocks. This rasies the rear roll centre, as does adding shims under the outer ball joint. Adding shims under the inner link lowers it, but not by the same amount.

Also, I tend to find a lower roll centre gives more grip, but less response. The 416 certainly seems to prefer a slightly higher rear RC, as it has a lot of natural rear traction. Good for outdoors, less so for indoors... if you can't dial it out that is

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Last edited by TryHard; 03-05-2008 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by JimmyMac View Post
I'll get ya in the morning Hebiki. I just woke up. And I need to head to work before I'm late....
Sent you a PM.. sorry its so long. I still havent decided.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by fadzli View Post
let say i adjust the arm sweep but still use the same toe angle. what will happen?
You'll get more entry and mid-corner steering.

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Old 03-05-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fadzli View Post
let say i adjust the arm sweep but still use the same toe angle. what will happen?
Ok, lets say your front toe is set to 0*,perfectly straight.

If you increase you are sweep,and keep the toe and 0*,you will gain steering mid corner,and some on exit.

Now,If you set the arm sweep to 0*,and increase you front toe to 1.5*,you'll gain steering on entry,mid corner,and on exit. But keep in mind that toe out makes the car turn more off center,by off center I mean the initial 5-10% of the steering throw.

So if you want more steering mid corner and on exit,without gaining much initial-arms sweep is best.(if you were confined to adjusting arm sweep and toe alone)

If you want to gain steering throughout the corner,and dont mind making the car slightly harder to drive-toe out is best (if you were confined to adjusting arms sweep and toe alone)
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:21 PM
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by m3ndo5a View Post
listen up,you could use it
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:41 PM
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First day with my 416 and it felt great. Unfortunality it was a short day do to breakage and I didn't even get to race it. You guys where right about the c hubs being very weak! I ended up breaking one on the 2nd time out on the track. I also broke the front upright. I was able to use the 415 c hubs and front uprights that the hobby store had in stock so I could get back on the track... Oh yeah I had to get 4 9x5mm bearings as well because the 416 ones are bigger. So I got back out there and ran some good laps. I was pushing it more then I should have and tried to hug the wall to close after the straight and hit that corner hard! I managed to break another upright, bent CVD, and bent steering rod. That ended my day with the 416. I ended up just racing my tank ta05. That thing has hit stuff way harder then the 416 has and kept right on going. Oh well, the good thing is on my first day with the 416 I was .3 sec better then my best lap with my TA05. So time to get some spares (if I can find them anywhere) and get this car ready for next week.

Are you guys running 46mm cvd's in the front and back or just front?
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:53 PM
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I had a similar experience with my 416 its first time out. There's a few things you'll want to do to harden it.

First, get the PDub bumper for the 415. You'll need to hack it up a bit to make it fit, but it's worth it.

Second, get the steel 46mm CVD's for the front. You'll need to pull the o-rings out of the one-way outdrives. I run 42mm steel CVD's in the rear, mostly because I had trouble with the blade interfering with the diff nut..

Third, get some titanium steering rods. That seems to be the only place they're really needed. I have the titanium for the rest of the car, but the aluminum seems to be fine other than the steering.

Fourth, get either some aluminum chubs, or try using the softer pieces. I'm using the softer pieces currently, and they've not broken. Unfortunately, they're rather flexible, so it's probably not optimum, but it will stop a lot of the breakage until you can get the aluminum bits. There's now aluminum steering knuckles too, which might be worth picking up if you're placing an overseas order.

That's what I've done to harden my car so far, and it's been pretty tough since then. I'm going to snag the aluminum bits for the front once they're in stock again.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I had a similar experience with my 416 its first time out. There's a few things you'll want to do to harden it.

First, get the PDub bumper for the 415. You'll need to hack it up a bit to make it fit, but it's worth it.

Second, get the steel 46mm CVD's for the front. You'll need to pull the o-rings out of the one-way outdrives. I run 42mm steel CVD's in the rear, mostly because I had trouble with the blade interfering with the diff nut..
Where can I buy this bumper? What is the part number for the 42mm steel CVD's?
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:40 AM
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hi all
its great to read how you are all getting on with the 416.#

ED just one thing missing..............where is fabien on the 416 front...
i thought he would be one of the first to make the break to the 416 and be shedding infinite wisdom with the rest of you..

ED
I won the letter of the month in racer magazine!!!
One free reedy 19t for my troubles yippee!!!
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pug 205 gti View Post
hi all
its great to read how you are all getting on with the 416.#

ED just one thing missing..............where is fabien on the 416 front...
i thought he would be one of the first to make the break to the 416 and be shedding infinite wisdom with the rest of you..

ED
I won the letter of the month in racer magazine!!!
One free reedy 19t for my troubles yippee!!!
Fab (TRF415boy) is now running a Kyosho Stallion, since getting a drive with Kyosho Europe....

Well down on the letter of the month thing

Ed
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