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Old 12-01-2007, 06:48 PM   #466
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Hey guys,

just wanted to say a quick thanks for the B/l advice everyone gave re; my clubs adoption of b/l.

In the end, we kinda took the easy way out, and simply reintroduced a 19t class, with B/L upto 10.5 allowed in it
There was a large amount of resistance to allow a stock brushless, despite my attempts to convinence the opposers... even going as far to offer to buy some different combos to compare with a 27t. However, some think that 19t will be too fast for the track, so theres still potential to drop back to 27t... and if a few people have adopted brushless by then, well, it's gives a back door shall we say

Still, I'm not complaining, means I can now go faster... as soon as the LRP 10.5 turns up got a sintered rotor on my desk already, hehe, looking forward to running a b/l - LiPo setup at club racing now

Oddly enough, getting the LiPo's approved was a piece of pee, pretty much everyone was eager to allow them!

Cheers
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:35 PM   #467
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That's so odd, here in the US brushless 13.5 seems really popular, but LiPo is getting a lot of resistance in certain circles. 10.5 is a nice compromise in 19T, but it may be a tad slower in certain situations.
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:53 PM   #468
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A bunch of us raced today at Josh Cyrul's track in "Stock Sedan", here are the combinations:

13.5-Lipo
13.5-NiMh
Brushed-Lipo
Brushed-NiMh

The Lipo cars had lead added, all cars were at ROAR legal weight.

All the 13.5's were Novak and I am pretty sure all the batteries were the latest SMC packs from Cleveland, all but one of the Lipo batteries were SMC,
all the cars were XRay's.

Everyone was very close in performance, I mean very close. In the end the fastest laps were turned by a 13.5-Nimh and a Brushed-Nimh, these two were very close. Of course diving skill and set-up enters into this as much as motor. I'll bet if Josh had driven any one of these cars he would have won, his Dad won instead!

I really don't think for a normal club race, in sedan, there is very much difference in performance between all the combinations. The very fastest lap of the day was turned by a 13.5-NiMh and that was by a whopping .04 second over a Brushed-NiMh, and both these cars were also the best driven and had very good set-ups. I am about ready to admit that Lipo is not quite as fast as a very good NiMh pack but since I am one of the Lipo cars I am not ready to give up the convience of the Lipo, it is so close I can live with it.

I will say that a 13.5 in 12th scale is definitely faster than a Brushed motor.
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:15 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
That's so odd, here in the US brushless 13.5 seems really popular, but LiPo is getting a lot of resistance in certain circles. 10.5 is a nice compromise in 19T, but it may be a tad slower in certain situations.
Brushless got alot of resistance too when it first came out. Even the newer styles. The .04 "difference" can be the driver missing a line by 4" also. Give me Lipo over the packs you need to buy every 4-6 months to keep up.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:22 AM   #470
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Ted Flack - How much faster were the NiMH drivers compared to the SMC LiPO drivers at Cyrul's track?

Have you guys tried the 17.5 in 1/12th scale yet?
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:40 AM   #471
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From what I can tell, the difference was minimal at best.

I can't imagine trying to find a rollout for 17.5 in 12th scale, 60+ pinion w/78 spur. Will it even fit?
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:45 AM   #472
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Ted Flack - How much faster were the NiMH drivers compared to the SMC LiPO drivers at Cyrul's track?

Have you guys tried the 17.5 in 1/12th scale yet?
As far as I know no one has tried a 17.5 in anything at Josh's track.

It's really hard to say the exact amount that NiMh was faster, the two fastest laps of the day 11.06 and 11.10 (I am pretty sure these were the numbers) were both NiMh. Us SMC Lipo guys were about .2 slower but I have to admit ours cars and driving may have been part of that. It appears the brushed motors and NiMh will give the really fast laps early in the run and the Lipo Brushless will run a much steadier pace for the entire 5 minutes, just never lay down that really quick lap.

I guess my main point is that 13.5 and Lipo or 13.5 and NiMh or 27T are close enough for club racing...we had a great day of racing. I find it hard to believe that a 17.5 would be fast enough to run with a really good brushed motor.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:50 AM   #473
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No fan at all. There is no need for one with a 13.5. Neither the speedo nor the motor gets too hot with the amperage flowing through the system. If you get your motor much hotter than 180 deg F even on a hot day outdoors you are overgeared.
Dang....no fan required?? At our club races we're running 10.5 and 13.5 TC on carpet/foam. What do you all think, can we ditch the ESC fans? I mean these BL systems are pigs, if we could save a little weight without sacrificing.....
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:37 AM   #474
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Dang....no fan required?? At our club races we're running 10.5 and 13.5 TC on carpet/foam. What do you all think, can we ditch the ESC fans? I mean these BL systems are pigs, if we could save a little weight without sacrificing.....
I haven't run a fan on my GTB or LRP TC Spec using 13.5 and 10.5 indoors since the beginning, which is over a year now. Not a single problem.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:49 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Flack View Post
A bunch of us raced today at Josh Cyrul's track in "Stock Sedan", here are the combinations:

13.5-Lipo
13.5-NiMh
Brushed-Lipo
Brushed-NiMh

The Lipo cars had lead added, all cars were at ROAR legal weight.

All the 13.5's were Novak and I am pretty sure all the batteries were the latest SMC packs from Cleveland, all but one of the Lipo batteries were SMC,
all the cars were XRay's.

Everyone was very close in performance, I mean very close. In the end the fastest laps were turned by a 13.5-Nimh and a Brushed-Nimh, these two were very close. Of course diving skill and set-up enters into this as much as motor. I'll bet if Josh had driven any one of these cars he would have won, his Dad won instead!

I really don't think for a normal club race, in sedan, there is very much difference in performance between all the combinations. The very fastest lap of the day was turned by a 13.5-NiMh and that was by a whopping .04 second over a Brushed-NiMh, and both these cars were also the best driven and had very good set-ups. I am about ready to admit that Lipo is not quite as fast as a very good NiMh pack but since I am one of the Lipo cars I am not ready to give up the convience of the Lipo, it is so close I can live with it.

I will say that a 13.5 in 12th scale is definitely faster than a Brushed motor.
As the guy that ran brushed-NiMh I would have to say all the combinations were very equal. In fact we all were also running X-ray T2 '007s with minor setup variations. I felt I gave up a little on top end and I also dropped off over the run where as brushless was able to maintain their speed better. I was using fresh, very good EP 4600s. I feel my motors were tuned extremely well and I was rebuilding before every run to see a fair comparison between brushed and 13.5. The one run I didn't rebuild I was easily 2 tenths slower throught out the entire run. The big hurter was not being able to bench race with the others as I had to keep wrenching.

I do think on a club level brushless is the way to go. Then pull out the brushed stuff to get ready for the next big race.

Brian
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:00 AM   #476
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hi everyone. im thinking of going brushless in my db12r. i have always run orion products as well as novak. so in your opinion which 13.5 is faster or more matched to a brushed c027 motor. will be running lrp sphere. thanx for all the help.
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:13 AM   #477
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Not sure if this has been discussed but why do people say that the Novak 13.5 is "faster" with the LRP TC Spec ESC over the GTB?
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:15 AM   #478
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Not sure if this has been discussed but why do people say that the Novak 13.5 is "faster" with the LRP TC Spec ESC over the GTB?
because the lrp has more timing than the GTB
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:09 PM   #479
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Ok, here's another one....Several of our club racers have found that the Novak 13.5 Pro is waaay faster than the LRP 13.5. I've tested the LRP and even stepped up for the sintered rotor and, the LRP is a dog compared to my Novak.

Is it cause the GTB is rejecting the LRP like a bad liver transplant or, have I forgotten to adjust the suck control??

BTW: thanks for the info syndr0me, I'll be gankin my fans out tonight
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:39 PM   #480
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Ok, here's another one....Several of our club racers have found that the Novak 13.5 Pro is waaay faster than the LRP 13.5. I've tested the LRP and even stepped up for the sintered rotor and, the LRP is a dog compared to my Novak.

Is it cause the GTB is rejecting the LRP like a bad liver transplant or, have I forgotten to adjust the suck control??

BTW: thanks for the info syndr0me, I'll be gankin my fans out tonight
What rotor do you have in the LRP? It comes with the bonded rotor, so if you don't have the sintered, you'll want to get it. Also, the LRP's sintered rotor is GINORMOUS! You need to give it way more gear than the Novak 13.5 pro, it's got a much smaller air gap, and therefore more torque. Try a rollout around 47mm to start, and work your way around from there. That should put you in the ball park, though.

I have found that a Novak motor with the 13mm sintered rotor will be geared very similarly to the LRP 13.5/sintered.
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