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Old 11-19-2007, 01:52 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
There is no way a 27turn can hang with a 13.5 especially at the end of the 5 min mark. this is assuming the driving skill of both drivers are pretty equal.

I've been trying to say that, lol.



Even though b/l is faster, I think that it will replace the 27t in the stock class.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:08 PM   #407
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In on-road, here's what I've observed. I'm just an okay club racer, but we have a couple of very talented guys at our track.

The 13.5 is at its biggest advantage out of the turns against a 27T brushed motor. In a straight line, on short carpet tracks, it's very hard to see the difference. Maybe on a longer straight outdoors you could gear the motor up more, but for the smaller indoor tracks, with a well-tuned 27t, it's close. Now, out of the turns, the 13.5 has a very clear advantage. This creates an interesting scenario. Most guys can go fast in a straight line, but the best guys are the ones that are fast through the turns. So with that in mind, the 13.5 seems like it would be a larger advantage to the guys that are slow through the turns, since they can get to speed faster, they're penalized much less for the speed they scrubbed. Guys that are fast through the turns are already fast, and since they're not scrubbing much speed to begin with, there's less to be gained with all that torque.

Now, with that in mind, the smoother/faster guys can then gear up more, and possibly get more top end from a 13.5 than slower guys since they're carrying more speed to begin with, and don't need the torque out of the turns.

What does it all mean? The 13.5 is faster. But, how much faster it feels to you is predicated entirely upon your skill level, and your motor building. I believe that's a big reason why some people say it's as fast as a 19T, and other guys say it's a few tenths better. It's quite an equalizer since it can reward slow guys more than fast guys, sometimes to a great extent.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:52 PM   #408
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IF you are fast with a 27 turn motor you will be faster with a 13.5... It's as simple as that.

What Ive found is that there is a smaller difference between a brushed 19 turn and a 10.5 brushless but there is still a clear advantage between the two. Plus in brushless you get the peak performance of the motor all the time. So chances are you will be fast every round vs. a brushed motor.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:06 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by RussB View Post
one thing to consider here... sometimes the person giving information on the internets may be a 10+ year racing veteran, or they may be a kid on school break.
Terry, me, and a few other SWR guys were all talking about this a few race days ago, and we all thought 13.5 was about even to a BR19T..... Mike R's car is a perfect example... But for him, he can drive fast, and gearing to the moon just makes him faster because he is so smooth, BUT

Then 3 other guys have done the same thing (Bob V, Scott R and John W), but they got slower in the infield then they used to be, yes faster in the straight to where they were beating me to then end, but I could beat them in the infield, and we are all very close in skill, but we just are not smooth drivers.

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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post

Now, with that in mind, the smoother/faster guys can then gear up more, and possibly get more top end from a 13.5 than slower guys since they're carrying more speed to begin with, and don't need the torque out of the turns.

What does it all mean? The 13.5 is faster. But, how much faster it feels to you is predicated entirely upon your skill level, and your motor building. I believe that's a big reason why some people say it's as fast as a 19T, and other guys say it's a few tenths better. It's quite an equalizer since it can reward slow guys more than fast guys, sometimes to a great extent.
What syndr0me said is what I think, its just he can say it 100 times better then I can, so it makes sense


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I'm a kid on school break, lol...From what I've read he is to, but not gonna say what I heard from one of the guys that he races with
And what would that be?
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:36 PM   #410
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Just a quick question. Is it ok to run a clip on heatsink and fan on a 13.5? If it matters im running just the normal rotor.

Cheers
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:39 PM   #411
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losi, our club passed a rule to put 13.5t in with 27t brushed in the Stock class. After six months of racing like that, and a big regional race that had a 13.5t class for the first time, there was tons of evidence that 13.5t is significantly faster than 27t, and in fact as fast as a pretty good 19t. So, a few weeks ago we moved 13.5t into our 19t class. Races have been incredibly fair since. It's also a good combination, because now if a guy wants to put lots of effort into his 19t brushed, he can have an advantage over a guy that does no work with a 13.5t.
IMHO, thatís a club with vision & foresight. If you want to keep the same number of classes at club racing (without creating a new 13.5 stock class), then thatís the only way to go.

I see comparable 19TBR and 13.5BL lap times week after week. The numbers donít lie.

The only occasions when Iíve seen 13.5BL on similar lap times as 27T is when they were still using bonded rotors.
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Old 11-19-2007, 04:15 PM   #412
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I race at Josh Cyrul's track which is a different layout every few weeks and right now has some very tight sections and some sections are flowing.

What I have seen so far on the brushless versus brushed is ths:

-In 1/12th scale the 13.5 is faster than a 27t, no debate on that. If there are enough entries with both motors they split the classes. I think part of this is because they all use the same type battery.

-In 19t turn it looks like a well prepared brushed is faster than a 10.5. No matter which type battery is used. One guy has run a fairly good test, lipo versus NiMh and they were very close. He did not have brand new packs but they were recently matched packs.

-In stock it looks like NiMh may (I repeat-may) have an advantage over Lipo with either motor. It seems most of the guys at our track have switched to Lipo when they switched to brushless.........myself included. For me I think the 13.5/Lipo was faster by a very little bit down the straight but the 27t had an advantage in the infield, not because of power out of the turn but rather the ability to turn in and finish the turns better because of the drag brake effect that the brushed motors have.

At this track I think we need to learn a little more about Lipo's and brushless before we could make a real decision but right now the two combinations are very close in sedans.
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Old 11-19-2007, 04:56 PM   #413
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Just a quick question. Is it ok to run a clip on heatsink and fan on a 13.5? If it matters im running just the normal rotor.

Cheers
you betcha! I got fans galore on a 17.5
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:00 PM   #414
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And what would that be?

It's be something better left unsaid. Out of the 1 1/2 years I've been in R/C. The important thing I learned is some things are better left not repeated.
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:04 PM   #415
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It's be something better left unsaid. Out of the 1 1/2 years I've been in R/C. The important thing I learned is some things are better left not repeated.
O K then........

why would you even post that someone said something if you wont tell what they said?
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:06 PM   #416
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Think.
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Old 11-19-2007, 06:24 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by rcracenut View Post
How long has Novak been using the red ring on the 13.5?
Red, is there new ones?

I thought it was orange
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Old 11-19-2007, 06:25 PM   #418
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How long has Novak been using the red ring on the 13.5?
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Old 11-19-2007, 06:32 PM   #419
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How long has Novak been using the red ring on the 13.5?
Since they introduced the "pro" series motors. Looks like around the middle of Feb'07.
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Old 11-19-2007, 08:06 PM   #420
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Ted Flack- do you have any opinion on 12th scale 19T, which is faster there, 19t brushed or 10.5, the way you were wording your opinions above, I am presuming you were talking 10th scale for 19T.... Thanks Ted!
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