EP4200's
09-01-2007, 10:58 PM
#1
EP4200's
With all the talk about "how bad Chinese lipos are" and "you cant trust lipos made in China", has anyone thought about all of the 4200's that are failing AND EP4200's....owned and made in China? If there are shortcuts and standards not adhered to in lipo, then why isnt there any outcry in the sub c world???comments.....NO FLAMING!
09-01-2007, 11:26 PM
#3
but doesnt give an hours run time, people are coming out of the woodwork to slam chinese made lipos? I am not a proponent for chinese lipos, but I want equal SLAMMING
09-02-2007, 12:00 AM
#4
why the double standard? With all the 4200 sub c's venting and exploding and the threads to prove it, why are people so mum about it, but if a lipo fails, not but doesnt give an hours run time, people are coming out of the woodwork to slam chinese made lipos? I am not a proponent for chinese lipos, but I want equal SLAMMING
but doesnt give an hours run time, people are coming out of the woodwork to slam chinese made lipos? I am not a proponent for chinese lipos, but I want equal SLAMMING More $$ per BTU with a lipo going up in smoke. It's more the people blowing them also. Lipos are more geared for runtime and bashers and still dont have quite the punch of a top end matched IB. The people buying the top end IB's are generally racers, and they understand their running on the edge and dont put up panic posts from a vent of blown pack...they understand it comes wth the territory and just go out and buy another...while the lipo user must do a little 
first. 
09-02-2007, 12:06 AM
#5
Not sure where thats coming from...I've read many threads and posts on IB's venting and blowing. The main difference IMO is the price of the flame. More $$ per BTU with a lipo going up in smoke. It's more the people blowing them also. Lipos are more geared for runtime and bashers and still dont have quite the punch of a top end matched IB. The people buying the top end IB's are generally racers, and they understand their running on the edge and dont put up panic posts from a vent of blown pack...they understand it comes wth the territory and just go out and buy another...while the lipo user must do a little first.
More $$ per BTU with a lipo going up in smoke. It's more the people blowing them also. Lipos are more geared for runtime and bashers and still dont have quite the punch of a top end matched IB. The people buying the top end IB's are generally racers, and they understand their running on the edge and dont put up panic posts from a vent of blown pack...they understand it comes wth the territory and just go out and buy another...while the lipo user must do a little first.
09-02-2007, 03:05 AM
#6
Tech Fanatic
First off, you need to read more threads from forums outside the USA, and you will see that there are as many on NiMH issues too. Secondly, the issue with LiPo is that problems can occur when the cells are unattended and not in operation. Thirdly, there is a large concern that users will not follow the instructions, and when this happens there will be problems.
Next, the concern is that if you don't follow the instructions, the cells can go dead in just a couple of low-discharges or overuse. LiPos seem easy to use because our greatest experience is in domestic goods ('phones, laptops, etc.) and these contain sophisticated systems to prevent operator error - they look easy to use because they are error-proofed.
Lastly, and most importantly, the method of LiPo manufacture can be reduced to a level where the dangers are built-in by the manufacturer. This cannot happen with NiMH. Any NiMH cell can be airfreighted anywhere by anyone. Only two manufacturer's of LiPo are approved by IATA for air freight - that tells you something.
If you want to flame NiMH, go right ahead. If you want to know why LiPo are of much greater safety concern when cheap ones are in use, do some homework. You'll find that cheap LiPo are an accident waiting to happen, whereas cheap NiMH are not. Expensive NiMH are at the limit of the technology, and sometimes they fail - that's life. It's no different to the many brushless rotor failures of last year, it's just the price you pay for taking technology to the edge. That's why I don't flame the NiMH producers.
Orion (Kokam) are very high quality, with built-in safety measures, can be shipped by air freight, and you see almost zero complaints. Go on to a 'flying' forum and look for issues with cheaper LiPos and you'll be at your screen for hours!! That's why I flame cheap LiPo - people don't like cheap LiPo, they suck.
Next, the concern is that if you don't follow the instructions, the cells can go dead in just a couple of low-discharges or overuse. LiPos seem easy to use because our greatest experience is in domestic goods ('phones, laptops, etc.) and these contain sophisticated systems to prevent operator error - they look easy to use because they are error-proofed.
Lastly, and most importantly, the method of LiPo manufacture can be reduced to a level where the dangers are built-in by the manufacturer. This cannot happen with NiMH. Any NiMH cell can be airfreighted anywhere by anyone. Only two manufacturer's of LiPo are approved by IATA for air freight - that tells you something.
If you want to flame NiMH, go right ahead. If you want to know why LiPo are of much greater safety concern when cheap ones are in use, do some homework. You'll find that cheap LiPo are an accident waiting to happen, whereas cheap NiMH are not. Expensive NiMH are at the limit of the technology, and sometimes they fail - that's life. It's no different to the many brushless rotor failures of last year, it's just the price you pay for taking technology to the edge. That's why I don't flame the NiMH producers.
Orion (Kokam) are very high quality, with built-in safety measures, can be shipped by air freight, and you see almost zero complaints. Go on to a 'flying' forum and look for issues with cheaper LiPos and you'll be at your screen for hours!! That's why I flame cheap LiPo - people don't like cheap LiPo, they suck.
09-02-2007, 08:08 AM
#7
Tech Adept
SlowerOne NiMH can fail when unattended has someone on this forum mentioned about their cells blowing up on the back of their truck on the way home from racing and to say that dangers can not be built-in by the manufacturer to NiMH is not true because there has been problems with blocked vents that happened durring manufacture and you can imagine what will happen to a cell that overheats during charge and tries to vent.
09-02-2007, 10:04 AM
#8
As pointed out...the main reason is the Lipo's are far more dangerous when they go. I've not personally seen a Lipo go, but from what I've read they give anyone a reason to talk (or post) about. A venting C is a bit less impressive. I read this just yesterday...the person reporting on a TC5 tips and tricks had one go (MaxAmps). It took a bunch more equipment on his bench...and this car...I'd be bitching too!! Never seen a nihm come close to that much damage.
That's a total loss.
09-02-2007, 11:48 AM
#10
Tech Adept
This year at our clubas far had I know we have had on NiMH explode and one Lipo catch fire.
The NiMH was after the race and caused a minor injury to the racers hand, while the Lipo failure looked more spectacular it did not cause any injury except for the car it was in. With the Lipo there was plenty of warning with all the smoke before it set on fire but the NiMH went without warning.
The problem with NiMH cells that want to vent, is when they can not vent because the vents are blocked the internal pressure can build to dangerous levels.
The NiMH was after the race and caused a minor injury to the racers hand, while the Lipo failure looked more spectacular it did not cause any injury except for the car it was in. With the Lipo there was plenty of warning with all the smoke before it set on fire but the NiMH went without warning.
The problem with NiMH cells that want to vent, is when they can not vent because the vents are blocked the internal pressure can build to dangerous levels.
09-02-2007, 05:53 PM
#11
As pointed out...the main reason is the Lipo's are far more dangerous when they go. I've not personally seen a Lipo go, but from what I've read they give anyone a reason to talk (or post) about. A venting C is a bit less impressive. I read this just yesterday...the person reporting on a TC5 tips and tricks had one go (MaxAmps). It took a bunch more equipment on his bench...and this car...I'd be bitching too!! Never seen a nihm come close to that much damage.
09-02-2007, 05:58 PM
#12
If your gonna bash a nimh battery.....at least bash the right one. 
The track record for ep batteries is a million times better than the ib's
The track record for ep batteries is a million times better than the ib's
09-02-2007, 06:01 PM
#13
I am not comparing EP to IB, just making reference to the bashing of chinese made lipo and nothing said about chinese made sub c's. If they dont fail bravo to them, then whats to say that chinese made lipos have similar standards being met? Thats what my questions and concerns are.
09-02-2007, 06:11 PM
#14
Tech Adept
Just my two cents…
The EP cells distributed by TRINITY Products INC. are far more reliable and durable over the IB cells. I have run both IB and EP cells over time for months now. Not to bash on the IB cells but I have had dead cells right from the manufacturer. The EP cells have not once been dead out of the box and when charging I don’t hear any venting from the cells.
The maintenance process is still the same with having to leave a charge in the cells after use. The cells have a tendency to discharge automatically while sitting on the shelf or waiting for the next time they will be used.
The EP cells distributed by TRINITY Products INC. are far more reliable and durable over the IB cells. I have run both IB and EP cells over time for months now. Not to bash on the IB cells but I have had dead cells right from the manufacturer. The EP cells have not once been dead out of the box and when charging I don’t hear any venting from the cells.
The maintenance process is still the same with having to leave a charge in the cells after use. The cells have a tendency to discharge automatically while sitting on the shelf or waiting for the next time they will be used.
09-02-2007, 06:16 PM
#15
I have to correct my initial post. The hateration is not directed at EP4200's. They were mentioned strictly because they are made in China. Now, if they are of good quality and meet excellent standards, my question is to the chinese-made lipo haters.....are chinese made lipos not as good as chinese made sub c's???