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Old 09-05-2007, 04:08 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
"i guess its official then.no biased opinion there what up blackstock."

Jason - Just like there isn't a biased opinion for you to push your own car...lmao.... And as far as you car not being a proven design, it already has been. It has an AE style front end (proven), pivot pod style rear end (proven ala CRC, Speed Merchant) but with fiberglass side plates which were proven via Masami's 1994 winning "U" bar 1/10 car at the World Championships in Sonnenburg Germany.... Little different look but same overall geometery and structural movement.... Diggety Designs and Walter Henderson have both also had "U" bar cars they've run/tested in the last 1-2 years.... You've just cut the center out of the "U"...

In the end, all the 1/12 cars are good. Every mfg works hard to make their product the best it can be and there really isn't any car out there that is revolutionary....
wow josh,dont get your panties in a bunch.i was breaking his balls
i am friends with mike and was giving him a hard time.
as for my design being done already,you really should look deeper into your claims.it is not a U bar design.it is a design i came up with to give the benefits of both t bar and link.it is NOT a solid mount to the pod.that works completely different and doesnt even remotely resemble the same handling characteristics.i would have figured you would have picked that out.it is a full free pivot like a link car but without coil side springs.it is actually something i thought a guy like you who seems to be heavily into 1/12th would appreciate.i wanted to get away from the 20+ year old technology of a T bar.they work great,i feel they have some issues with durability though.link cars work great also.they handle bumpy tracks well but i never did like them as much as T bar cars.this was a project i took on over a year ago and finally got it to work really well.so before you start trying to hammer on me on here,i only came on here to stop the nonsense of proven design due to national titles.i only released the car 3 weeks ago so no,i dont have any with this car yet.i was not on here pushing my product.this was a question for the PAYING customers to answer.they are the only ones who will give there honest oppinion.you,me,blackstock,adrian,really do not have a point in answering this question because it will be nothing more than shameless plug.if you would like to discuss this any further,PM or phone is preferred
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Last edited by protc3; 09-05-2007 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:26 PM   #62
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Jason - First, my panties aren't in a bunch...lol... I honestly don't care as I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and there are hunderds of ways to make a race car and with testing/time/drive, they all have the potential to win races.

I will say though, that a driver like Mike or myself that has been around for 15-20+ years in the industry is going to have a very strong opinion as we have probably tested more cars/geometry and construction techniques than 99% of the people who race 1/12.... Also, Mike and all the other CEFX drivers have come to me to race my car with no salaries or contracts. They race CEFX because they want to....

I have looked at your car and it is the same as the other cars I have mentioned only you cut the center out of the "U" (read what I wrote). They all had 3 pivots across the back of the pod so that there was no front to back control via fiberglass... Again, your design is a much "cleaner" and nicer design in my opinion but by no means is it something totaly new. The concept has been done before and it was good enough to WIN an IFMAR World Championship... With that being said, I'm sure you will have a great year with your product.
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what is a good 1/12 pan car to get?-yrx10-8.jpg  
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:17 PM   #63
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josh,

i am in no way doubting your,mikes,or any other preffesional drivers driving capabilities in any way shape or form.it does not take a professional driver to develope,understand,or manufacture a style of front or rear suspension or anything else on the car.it takes a good knoledge of the cars and how they work and engineering ability.driving at yours ,mikes,and other guys of your class takes a talent that i do not have.the talent to develope an rc car is elementary to what my capabilities are.so i ask you not to doubt my ability as an engineer as i do not doubt yours as a very talented driver.i have seen you come up with some nice stuff and i have seen you come up with new ideas also.that is cool.never did i question or belittle your developements reguardless of what i thought of them.i liked some and some i didnt.i take my hat off to you for trying something new.the picture you posted of a rear suspension does not work the same as mine.as i said,just by having the flex plates seperate changes drasticly the spring tension of the rear.josh,you are not a dumb guy and neither am i.you know this.you are trying to have people doubt my car given your position and if that makes you feel better than go ahead.i will not insult your design in retaliation.that is pointless.there are certain things needed to make rear suspension work efficiently on the car.central and forward pivot,side spring tension and some form of forward spring tension.Tbars,link style,the style you posted and mine all have that.to make your arguement valid would be saying that they are all the same because they all pivot forward,they all have side and forward spring tension.this is not true.they all react differently and have there own advantages.again,you know this.so why do you feel the need to make light of something i spent alot of time and energy developing and then try to make it look like a copycat design.the point of the design was to take the advantages of link car,the advantages of t bar cars,and utilize them both. i have made this a marketable car by taking the 2 and putting them together to make a very solid,durable,desirable looking tweak free car. i would appreciate it if you would stop trying to manipulate people into thinking the car is not worth it or nothing new.if you took the time to appreciate something different instead of doubting it,we wouldnt be having this pointless,childish debate. as i said,if you would like to talk about this,pm's,im's or phone is fine.enough with clogging this thread.
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:52 PM   #64
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Jason, I say with the greatest respect that Josh is entitled to his opinion, that when he holds one, he has a very tight grip, and that having watched him at a Worlds, he has so many tricks up his sleeve he really does know a lot more than you credit him for on this thread.

Please guys, from this customer's perspective, drop it? When in a hole, stop digging!!
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:30 PM   #65
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When did this thread become a DB12 product infomercial? and who cares the guy just asked what would be a good 1/12th scale to get. infact any 1/12th car would be fine if there is a good supply of parts and the car is setup correctly. Oh don't forget someone has to drive it. T-bar,link,horseshoe,or what ever chassis you think up or tweek to your specs it really does not matter.
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:52 AM   #66
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Jason....

Please use some capitalization, and proper punctuation (or at least the best you can). Your posts are literally unreadable run-on sentences.

Your car looks good, and I'm sure it's well made, but it isn't anything new or out of the box. By continually pimping it as something revolutionary, you just make yourself and your company, look uneducated in the evolution of pan cars.

Guys like Josh have forgotten more about 12th scale than most of us will ever know.
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Old 09-06-2007, 01:57 AM   #67
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Hey Jason feel justified in your coments, as the photo shows in Josh's post the differences are vast.
As far as I can read in no way did you question his credibility.

With the time and effort that you have put into your product you are right in standing up for your right to defend your own credibility and of your products.

Time will tell on the cars success, it looks fantastic so keep up the hard work.

Doubters and others feel threatened by change a refinement to an earlier design by other manufacturers will cause debate, if someone has the foresight to develop and move forward then it is a win situation for us racers.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:31 AM   #68
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In the recent past it's been surprising and even a bit disappointing to read some of the posts from a couple of the smaller makers of 1/12th scale cars and/or products as they have declared their products to be in some way superior to others. At least two come to mind who have even jumped to other threads (including this one) to insert their understandibly biased opinions there. By contrast the two car makers who have absolutely dominated the compedative racing scene in the last few years (namely CRC and Speedmerchant) have remained appropriately quiet on these threads and they have let their product promotion be put forth by demonstrated on track performance at virtually all the major events (and the local ones as well). Just that marked contrast in approach speaks volumes about the way each company does business. Most all the cars that have been mentioned on this thread and others will perform well in the hands of a capable racer, so the choice of which one to use comes down to more subjective things.........like how easy is it to get parts and support for the chosen ride........and since these are all small businesses, which one does one feel good about supporting with one's hard earned dollars. Personally, I'd choose one who does their promotion on the track where the results are verifiable and not subjective. Talk is something anybody can do. Winning consistantly is perhaps a more true test. Being classy while winning.......that's even more dear. Go Frank! Go Bruce! I'll see you both in Cleveland.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:34 AM   #69
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It doesn't matter which one you buy. Just buy one. And if you get hooked, it won't be the last one you'll buy.
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:40 AM   #70
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Jason,

Your car looks good man. However, the constant promotion of your product on every single 1/12 scale related thread is begining to be excessive!

Continue to work hard and test in an effort to put togther a strong showing at major events this year. Hopefully your results can do some of the talking.

Jeremy
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:40 AM   #71
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http://translate.google.com/translat...%3Den%26sa%3DG
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:08 PM   #72
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Jason - I credited you with a nice design and already stated that you will probably have a good year with your product.... I am not creating doubt or belittling your product. Our C12 is nothing more than a modified 12L (designed by Gil Losi Jr. in the 1980's)....lol...

CEFX Infomercial:

CEFX C12 Evo2

Winner Modified Cleveland Indoor Champs 04
TQ, Winner Stock Cleveland Indoor Champs 06
Winner 19t Cleveland Indoor Champs 06
TQ Roar Carpet Nats 07
TQ, Winner 19t ROAR Asphalt Nats 07

Kit street price: $200.00

Includeds all the good stuff a 1/12 car needs...lol...

No tires or body included.

All graphite/fiberglass/foam components are machined in house and now extensive design/engineering/stress analyasis work is done via Solid Works to improve the performance of every part on a CEFX car...

My personal experince in 20 years racing in r/c:

26 ROAR National Titles
7 US Indoor Championships
9 Snowbirds National Championships
13 IFMAR World Championship A-Finals
1 IFMAR World Championship TQ
1 - ARCOR Oval World Champion

CEFX - Go ahead, be a Champion!

What do you think guys?? How'd I do....lmao....

Did I mention we now make 1/12 and 1/10 oval cars!!!
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Last edited by Josh Cyrul; 09-06-2007 at 12:12 PM. Reason: forgot stuff
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:28 PM   #73
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Awesome sig!
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Old 09-06-2007, 02:33 PM   #74
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the car may be $200...how much for the thumbs?
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Old 09-06-2007, 02:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
What do you think guys?? How'd I do....lmao....
Only thing left is 1 IFMAR world championship
Go get 'em Josh
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