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Old 08-28-2007, 11:55 AM   #16
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Here's idea keep both let the people who like brushed run brushed and bl run bl don't mix the two but have different classes.Why does one have to replace the other just let both exist makes sense to me anyway
At the club level most dont have the # of entries to support splitting the class. Plus while both exist the price of brushless probably wont get down to a level where they are cheap enough to make them a RTR motor.
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:58 AM   #17
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fair enough mix them at the club level to make classes bigger but on a larger scale I would just let people do what they want when there is enough people for two classes.

I personally love both I have been running brushed so long it's easy for me to get a motor run but sadly as I get older driving seems to be the problem lol BL seems good to it has it's good points like anything else but I really wouldn't want either of them to go away seems to me there has to be a middle ground somewhere we just haven't found it yet,
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:58 AM   #18
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At the club level most dont have the # of entries to support splitting the class. Plus while both exist the price of brushless probably wont get down to a level where they are cheap enough to make them a RTR motor.
I seem to recall a Losi that came RTR that was less than $350 bucks...brushless.

Make the races longer, we'll see what type of motor sticks around
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:00 PM   #19
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I seem to recall a Losi that came RTR that was less than $350 bucks...brushless
Yeah, a 2wd buggy, right? I think the traxxas vehicles that come in both the brushless version is more then $100 more.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:01 PM   #20
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In the Netherlands our national series runs 19 turns Element V2 motors for stock class ( 5 cells racing ) and Modified is your own choice: brushed and Brushless both allowed. Most people use Brushless in Modified because of our large 8th scale tracks to have the (small ? ) avantage of efficiency brushless motors gives them. we are racing 6 nats with 3 qualifiers and 2 finals each. In the end the 9 best finished finals are counted for the championship.

We are thinking about brushless for stock class too. Against is that most stock drivers are not racing brushless right now and are forced to buy a new speedo. Also some people are very inventiv and can programm a speedo to get more power than others. In my opinion that's in the spirit of racing but NOT for stock class racing.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:04 PM   #21
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At this time, its hard to forsee any particular motor or battery becomming the 'norm'. Electric is fragmented into so many classes that a stock/brushed class could be around indefinately.

Some of the most helpfull and knowledgable people I've met and raced against only do brushed stock and want nothing to do with brushless motors. They might not post a lot here, but for them, racing is not 'broken'. They are willing to make a committment (batteries, time, research) that most of us refuse to do.

If anything, I think electric will probably remain split in 3 classss

Brushed/Stock/Sub C cells
Brushless/Mod/Lipos
13.5 Brushless/stock/lipo

I think stock 13.5 will take the place of 19T spec.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:06 PM   #22
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In the Netherlands our national series runs 19 turns Element V2 motors for stock class ( 5 cells racing ) and Modified is your own choice: brushed and Brushless both allowed. Most people use Brushless in Modified because of our large 8th scale tracks to have the (small ? ) avantage of efficiency brushless motors gives them. we are racing 6 nats with 3 qualifiers and 2 finals each. In the end the 9 best finished finals are counted for the championship. One of you finally admit the tracks are large

We are thinking about brushless for stock class too. Against is that most stock drivers are not racing brushless right now and are forced to buy a new speedo. Also some people are very inventiv and can programm a speedo to get more power than others. In my opinion that's in the spirit of racing but NOT for stock class racing.
Thats the key word. Thats what I was looking to see if someone had the balls to put it out there...efficiency. When you factor in power consumption AND minimal maintennance, BL motors are more efficient thus, providing more time for other endevours around the track.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ed237 View Post
At this time, its hard to forsee any particular motor or battery becomming the 'norm'. Electric is fragmented into so many classes that a stock/brushed class could be around indefinately.

Some of the most helpfull and knowledgable people I've met and raced against only do brushed stock and want nothing to do with brushless motors. They might not post a lot here, but for them, racing is not 'broken'. They are willing to make a committment (batteries, time, research) that most of us refuse to do.

If anything, I think electric will probably remain split in 3 classss

Brushed/Stock/Sub C cells
Brushless/Mod/Lipos
13.5 Brushless/stock/lipo

I think stock 13.5 will take the place of 19T spec.
I'll buy your hypothesis for a dollar, but I have one question. If, as Dave Nelson puts it:

Dave Nelson -I think it should be personal prefrence. forcing people to invest in a new motor,esc,batteries may drive people out of the hobby. I for one am not going bl unless they do handouts like with brushed races.

if this is a true statement, wont races in theory, eventually be longer than the 5 minute standard we have in place now? If people are leaving the hobby, as Dave suggests, then it stands to reason that racers will want more track time to fill the voids
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Old 08-28-2007, 01:35 PM   #24
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funny i ask a club member that question what will become of brushed motors when brushless takes over.when i first started running modified using brush wow alot of attention to the motor then went brushless never look back it is just amazing bee.
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Old 08-28-2007, 01:38 PM   #25
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Thats the truth. When I first starting running modified, p-94 7doubles, oh my God was I hooked. But, to keep that speed and power, required alot of maintennance and tuning. And no matter what, I could never get it to its optimal setting, the way it ran that very first time. With BL, my 3.5 that I bought damn, how many months ago, runs as strong now as it did when it was new....all I have to do is freshen the solder leads every so often and lube the bearings. thats it. who wouldnt want that?!?!?
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Old 08-28-2007, 01:52 PM   #26
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The hangup is going to be regulated classes such as stock or 19T. Sure there are stock and 19T equivalents but they don't all perform the same, some combinations of motor and ESC perform better then the same motor with a different ESC, some outperform the classes they are supposedly equivalent with. And that equivalency is really only based on 1 class...TC. In other classes like 1/12th the equivalency doesn't hold.
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Old 08-28-2007, 01:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
The hangup is going to be regulated classes such as stock or 19T. Sure there are stock and 19T equivalents but they don't all perform the same, some combinations of motor and ESC perform better then the same motor with a different ESC, some outperform the classes they are supposedly equivalent with. And that equivalency is really only based on 1 class...TC. In other classes like 1/12th the equivalency doesn't hold.
Sounds to me that the term "equivalents" is going to have to be removed from the fold. Just like brushed motors were called 6,7,8,9, etc etc, so should brushless motors. If everyone sticks with the ".5" system, looks like equivalent will go the way of the dodo.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:02 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Thats the truth. When I first starting running modified, p-94 7doubles, oh my God was I hooked. But, to keep that speed and power, required alot of maintennance and tuning. And no matter what, I could never get it to its optimal setting, the way it ran that very first time. With BL, my 3.5 that I bought damn, how many months ago, runs as strong now as it did when it was new....all I have to do is freshen the solder leads every so often and lube the bearings. thats it. who wouldnt want that?!?!?
started with the same motor 10 turn then 7 turn dispite what still will not run right had to fiddle with brushes, springs, com,track temperature and gearing and still try to keep up.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:06 PM   #29
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Its really up to the guys who are currently running brushed stock to keep it going. There are a lot of them still out there. I dont ever attempt to cast aspersions their way because most of them can beat me with their tuned stockers even though I have a 6.5 brushless.

But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if after another 5 years there won't be enough new 'brushed' guys to keep it going.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:09 PM   #30
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when, if ever, will BL motors become the dominant and STANDARD force in R/C? just opinions.....
When ROAR make specifications for a stock brushless motor.
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