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Old 08-27-2007, 05:03 PM   #76
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Ladies, can we all get along??
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:04 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
The simple point of fact is that lipo's have a much higher concentration of energy and can deliver that energy much faster than nimh, hence some safety precautions and safety features need to be built into the lipo packs. Orion/Peak come the closest to this ideal. At this time, the only pack allowed at most tracks that allow lipo are the orion/peak packs. If you run other packs, too bad.

The only downside as some have mentioned is price, and capacity, BUT we use to race with 2000mah batteries in MOD, 3300mah in MOD, etc. A 3200 mah lipo pack is fine for most racing.
I'm sorry billjacobs but I disagree with you to a certain extent.

Firstly about safety. I agree that hard cased lipos are a good idea in theory. But I do think it's an over emphasized and over hyped selling point.

Plus points (IMHO)

-Brings a standardized format to the car scene
-Some crash protection
-Looks tidy with no wires

Negatives (also IMHO)

-Acts as a heat insulator
-Adds Extra Weight
-Adds Extra Size
-Limited to using bullet connector
-Can reverse connect!
-Extra cost

In the bike racing scene almost all of us in the modified class have been using lipos of various types (none hard cased). There has been some horrendous crashes, maybe one or two have done damage to a lipo. One was bent into a right angle! No fire, no deaths... The lipo was bent back straight and it still worked believe it or not, albeit very poorly. What I'm trying to say is that don't scare monger so much that lipo's are a deadly weapon. And most importantly don't think that a flimsy piece of plastic is going to protect the lipo much if it hits a fence at 60mph.

My maxamps pack did fly out of my car once at about 40mph. It skided across the ground and hit a wire fence. Grazed the heat shrink a bit and that was it. I've since lock tighted my battery holder post in .

If any car club thinks that just stipulating that the pack must be in a hard case is going to be safe they can think again. What if someone decides to fit cheap ebay cells into an old orion box?

And what about MN cells?? None of the are available in hard cases but are even safer than any lipo's that do.(allegadly)

The other issue I've got with what you said about the capacity.

I urge people to not go with the smaller capacity packs if they can avoid it. Large capacity means less internal resistance, which means less stress on the pack. Your pack/s will perform better for longer, you can practice longer. Also with a smaller pack there is much higher chance of going 100% flat which is a big no no with lipo's.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:21 PM   #78
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[QUOTE=billjacobs;3619379]Some people need to name call and bully others to feel better about themselves, some people simply don't have the social manners to get along or communicate a point, and some people are just plain arrogant jerks. Each person can decide for themselves who is which. Questioning someone else's intelligence when the points they make are more logical, better organized, and better laid out than yours are just shows who you are, and no amount of name calling, bullying, or back tracking will change that.

I clearly stated that I am an arrogant prick. Never denied it. I also gave valid points for maxamps AND for Orions. I was educated about the internal fuse, but he got his feelings hurt when I clowned him about his electronics shorted out. MAYBE he feels like a dunce for citing an instance he didnt perfom a simple maintennance check and a fuse saved his sorry butt. Speaking comically, it was done for fodder. Jokes. Ms fancy pants turbo joe got personal. But, if we want to put it test, can anyone truly prove how smart they are? And who made him judge and jury? Other folks made valid arguements without succumbing to mud-slinging....only turbo-hoe got personal. You know what, be glad we arent in the same city joe...then it would be some threatening! HE made it an Orion against Maxamps, not me. I spoke from an economic standpoint. He came from safety. I quoted instances where my car should have gone up, he said nothing about the situtations. He picked and chose his arguements and got personal. Yes, I call him a SIMP, because he is one. Several other people spoke of instances where there were nasty crashes, he chose to ignore those and concentrate on whatever. So, anything he said resembling logic from that point went out the window and whatever he said to say to me became inflammatory. I asked him to let it go, he persisted. Name calling, man, you guys are more sensitive than a laundry room full of old women.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
The internal fuse on the Orion packs is WAY worth the price.
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You cello-wrapped LiPo guys can talk all the smack you want about the extra you pay for the "plastic shell" and you can try and make your own...but there's more to it than just the shell. They last longer AND they're fail-safe.
This is what started it all. I had made many posts before HE chimed in. Thats when it got personal. Had he read what I posted many times before he even got in the room, he would have kept his comments to himself.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:30 PM   #80
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I clearly stated that I am an arrogant prick.
Then don't be offended or suprised when you get treated like one.

There are too many internet tough guys already.. your schtick is geting old and annoying and adds nothing to the discussion.

Being an unashamed prick doesn't excuse you from the consequences of your attitude.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:41 PM   #81
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Then don't be offended or suprised when you get treated like one.

There are too many internet tough guys already.. your schtick is geting old and annoying and adds nothing to the discussion.

Being an unashamed prick doesn't excuse you from the consequences of your attitude.
I wouldnt be and am not offended but, this thread didnt start that way. I usually keep the arrogance in check until some meathead opens his mouth. You dudes amaze me. Things start off one way and then one an individual becomes truculent, everyone wonders why. I didnt come in the thread insulting Orion products, that would be retarded. Never spoke bad about their products once. Mr holier than thou got on his high horse on safety. But, like I said, he never commented on incidences people cited when their maxamps packs came through or as he put it, cheapie cell-o wrapped packs. And for the record, its not my schtick. Arrogance is a swagger that is neither learned or taught. Thats what seperates those of us with winning attitudes from you whining crybabies.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:59 PM   #82
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Here is a great web page for you:

http://onlinetoughguy.ytmnd.com/

You can have it playing in the background as you hit SUBMIT REPLY (because you know you will, you can't resist) then sit back and smile, confident that you are "intellectually superior" to everyone else on these forums.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:04 PM   #83
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Shame common sense lipo's are getting all the publicity in the topic title lol. Can we change the topic to LIPO WARS, THE REAL FIRE HAZZARD! ie forum flaming.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:05 PM   #84
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[QUOTE=bxpitbull;3619087]Please point out where I have threatened you? Are you in NYC where I can reach out and touch you? No. So threats on the web are pointless and dumb. I did insult you and that was not an arduous task, relatively simple. <---I think I said that

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertV View Post
Here is a great web page for you:

http://onlinetoughguy.ytmnd.com/

You can have it playing in the background as you hit SUBMIT REPLY (because you know you will, you can't resist) then sit back and smile, confident that you are "intellectually superior" to everyone else on these forums.
Robert V, oh well, another person I cant consider a friend, sad. One less Christmas gift for me. Good luck on that future as an forum moderator. And for the record, I didnt succumb to the urge to view that url.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:06 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by JevUK View Post
Shame common sense lipo's are getting all the publicity in the topic title lol. Can we change the topic to LIPO WARS, THE REAL FIRE HAZZARD! ie forum flaming.
I'd laugh but I have my part in adding to the lipo fires. Gotta love our toy car conversations.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:12 PM   #86
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I'd laugh but I have my part in adding to the lipo fires. Gotta love our toy car conversations.
Kuzo, you were in the mix of this, did I get at you nastily? You spoke highly of Orion and posted a BOOK of info, did I slander you to the point of mud slinging? You and I conversed as gentlemen and kept it moving, did we not? Its this moderator wanna be's, self righteous mofos that have exacerbated this foolishness to the point of "what the f**k?"
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:15 PM   #87
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Capacity requirements change with application. If I run tamiya mini, do I need a 6000mah pack? If I run any car with a silver can motor, do I need a 6000mah pack?

Lipo by their nature are more efficient than nimh. So that 3200mah will run better and close to the same time as a 4200 mah nimh pack because:
1) it is half the weight, reducing the motor current draw
2) its internal resistance is very small compared to nimh
3) it doesn't heat up which simply burns energy (the heat is dissipated energy)

Lipo's simply don't heat up while in use. Most of the heat you feel in a lipo (what little there is,) is heat that it absorbs from the motor, esc, etc. The plastic shell actually does a decent job keeping the heat away from the lipo cell.

As for using 4mm bullets, you have a point. They should have used a polarized design. But the recessed plugs are great for storage and no wire gets in the way.

I am sure the next generation of esc will all be lipo friendly and will have lipo voltage cutoffs, which removes the problem of running the battery until 100% flat.

To repeat, at THIS time, orion has by far the best design. Is it perfect, no, but nothing is.

I am not going to get into an argument of maxamps vs orion (kokam) because I am not an expert, but the mere ability to run the 3200mah in a tamiya mini, f103gt, and easily run it in most rc is reason enough FOR me to spend the extra $25 on it.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:21 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Kuzo, you were in the mix of this, did I get at you nastily? You spoke highly of Orion and posted a BOOK of info, did I slander you to the point of mud slinging? You and I conversed as gentlemen and kept it moving, did we not? Its this moderator wanna be's, self righteous mofos that have exacerbated this foolishness to the point of "what the f**k?"
I was at the point where I could have let it go completely down that road. I stepped back long enough to get a grip. I've personally been a bit of an a$$ lately if you read around. I think at this point it wouldn't hurt to let this thread revert to topic and move the rest to pm or chat lounge.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:21 PM   #89
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Initially, I thought Gordie bought the pack because of money. When he stated that it was because his track only allowed hard cased lipo, I suggested he buy Orion. Orion has the superior casing because they designed it to break ground for lipo in r/c applications. They make it more user friendly, less idiot proof. But, when you get past that, the Mah selection of Maxamps is better for those of us who are looking for more than 5 minutes or get this, decide they dont want to tote chargers and extra packs to the track. One 6000 gets me through three races without visiting my charger. So, to each his own.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:11 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
Capacity requirements change with application. If I run tamiya mini, do I need a 6000mah pack? If I run any car with a silver can motor, do I need a 6000mah pack?

Lipo by their nature are more efficient than nimh. So that 3200mah will run better and close to the same time as a 4200 mah nimh pack because:
1) it is half the weight, reducing the motor current draw
2) its internal resistance is very small compared to nimh
3) it doesn't heat up which simply burns energy (the heat is dissipated energy)

Lipo's simply don't heat up while in use. Most of the heat you feel in a lipo (what little there is,) is heat that it absorbs from the motor, esc, etc. The plastic shell actually does a decent job keeping the heat away from the lipo cell.

As for using 4mm bullets, you have a point. They should have used a polarized design. But the recessed plugs are great for storage and no wire gets in the way.
If stock is all you are going run to then the 3200mah pack is not a bad buy. But on a long term basis I would still prefer the 4800 over it, unless it doesn't fit into one of your cars.

Even if the packs are being cycled well below their maximum, C rating will affect life span. 3200mah may keep over 95% performance for 200 cycles but the 4800mah may keep 95% for 300 when charge and discharge at the same rate. This figures are just an example.

No arguing here, just sharing the varied experience I've had with lipo's.

I think a subject worth starting a new topic on would be the future rules and regs regarding lipos. If clubs keep coming up with their own varied rules it's going to cause all sorts of confusion and upset amongst the average racer who wants say good by to crap nimh's.

I know it's far fetched but I think a testing board would be good, so that only lipos that have had random samples tested are certified for sanctioned race meetings.
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