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Old 08-26-2007, 01:07 PM   #46
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Thank you Jev, glad to see someone else gets where I am coming from. I may come off holier than thou to some, BUT, I never once said Maxamps is better than Orion OR did I say Orion's packs were trash. All I stated to Pitnamedgordie was he could gotten a Maxamps pack with more Mah for the same price. He said his track accepted hardcases only. I suggested he invest a few dollars more to get the Orion. To some of these people, if one is not agreeing with them and kissing their ideas azzes, you are dissing them and their beliefs. I dont care if these dudes dis Maxamps, I know they have worked for me. They quote safety, I give clear horror stories that I have encountered with no flames. Oh well, you cant convince everybody.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:27 PM   #47
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What excatly do you want to change his mind about?

Do you want him to suddenly believe that the maxamp pack he is very happy with is shit because you told him so? lol
Why do you think I said I didn't? My only only goal with my post was to show why Chinese cells tend to be junk compared to others. Too many words for you?

Glad you noticed Enerland weren't junk. One of the few like Kokam that aren't.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:57 PM   #48
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Default Orion vs Maxamps pack

All of this talk about Orion costing so much more is interesting. The retail prices don't mean anything, what matters is how much you can buy them for.

On sale, at maxamps site, their 3000mah pack is $54.99, while at stormer, the orion is $79.99. That is a difference of $25 per pack. For that $25 per pack, you get:
1) kokam cells, top of the line
2) hard case
3) short circuit protection
4) 4mm plugs versus a built in connector
5) extra 200mah of capacity
6) because of the rounded case, the orion fits into mini coopers and all other cars that can only use a stick pack
7) because of the little plastic bumps on the bottom of the orion pack, it is more secure in a chassis that takes side by side packs (except for a chassis where you have a battery box.)

How much are each of those worth to you?

Also keep in mind that with lipo, you are not buying 6 packs, you need 2 at the most. So how much more is that $25 really?

In my opinion, the hard case is worth the extra $25 by itself, not to mention everything else.
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Old 08-26-2007, 02:36 PM   #49
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Why do you think I said I didn't? My only only goal with my post was to show why Chinese cells tend to be junk compared to others. Too many words for you?

Glad you noticed Enerland weren't junk. One of the few like Kokam that aren't.
I got the impression that you thought maxamps packs were crap because they used chinese cells.

Maxamps can source their cells from italy for all I care. As long as they deliver the goods, which they are doing very well for me and pitbull and many other.

I know all about the cheap packs you can get with high IR that do not stand up to the abuse we put them through. But the lipo arena is more complex than that.

If you take one pack with 6000mah and one with 4800mah that have the same weight and size. Even if the 6000mah pack has 15% more internal resistance it will perform better than the 4800mah pack.

I just had a look at the current prices of the orion 4800 and maxamps 6000. Orion has come down a bit since I got my 6000 but still ont he high side.

$140 orion 4800
$110 maxamp 6000

I'm not sure if I would get away with running the orion pack with back to back runs, so I might have needed 2 packs instead of one.

I agree that the hard case protection is brilliant, but it is costly in size and weight.

I do not like the built in bullits, far to easy to reverse connect, and why should orion dictate how you wire your car up?
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Old 08-26-2007, 05:48 PM   #50
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If a fuse is so important, fit one externally. By the sounds of it the fuse in the Orion pack doesn't work all that well if you car still melts lol.
The car didn't melt. In case you weren't reading closely, that was the whole point of having the fuse. The speedo shorted and started to go off and the fuse blew and stopped the conflagration before it really got started. The fuse blew and saved the car.

I never really thought much of them until it saved my stuff...now I tend to think it's a nice thing to have. I hope you never have a need for one...just like I never had up until that point in time.
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Old 08-26-2007, 05:59 PM   #51
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I got the impression that you thought maxamps packs were crap because they used chinese cells.

Maxamps can source their cells from italy for all I care. As long as they deliver the goods, which they are doing very well for me and pitbull and many other.

I know all about the cheap packs you can get with high IR that do not stand up to the abuse we put them through. But the lipo arena is more complex than that.

If you take one pack with 6000mah and one with 4800mah that have the same weight and size. Even if the 6000mah pack has 15% more internal resistance it will perform better than the 4800mah pack.

I just had a look at the current prices of the orion 4800 and maxamps 6000. Orion has come down a bit since I got my 6000 but still ont he high side.

$140 orion 4800
$110 maxamp 6000

I'm not sure if I would get away with running the orion pack with back to back runs, so I might have needed 2 packs instead of one.

I agree that the hard case protection is brilliant, but it is costly in size and weight.

I do not like the built in bullits, far to easy to reverse connect, and why should orion dictate how you wire your car up?
I'll tell you what it is for me. I simply don't trust them anymore. Too many problems coming out of Chinese factories these days in lipo and other sectors and you know Maxamps is likely to be using Chinese cells based on their price alone. Granted I can only guess because they won't tell and that recent About Us page they put up really bugs me. Anyway, I've read too much about Chinese quality control in lipos from sources I trust to have much faith in them.

I think the piece that Maxamps does that others don't is their is the attention they put into pack construction. In my opinion, they have a high attention to detail and good technique.
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:56 PM   #52
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Kuzo, my bad. I too, am very concerned with many of the products coming from China and their lack of attention to detail and American standards AND how they cut corners. That said, MaxAmps says their stuff is made here in America, not assembled, but made in America. Their cells could be made in Uruguay for all we know. I'll say this, for me, the packs work and give me what I want. May not be bullet proof and may not have an "internal fuse", but, they have never failed me....and I put my cells through the ringer. Turbo joe, eat a fat one.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:20 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Kuzo, my bad. I too, am very concerned with many of the products coming from China and their lack of attention to detail and American standards AND how they cut corners. That said, MaxAmps says their stuff is made here in America, not assembled, but made in America. Their cells could be made in Uruguay for all we know. I'll say this, for me, the packs work and give me what I want. May not be bullet proof and may not have an "internal fuse", but, they have never failed me....and I put my cells through the ringer. Turbo joe, eat a fat one.
Tell you what bx, I run Orion because I know every aspect about them. Control freak? Maybe. I have a 9 year old, a 7 tear old and a 4 year old that drive and we all run lipo. I have to trust what I use. I mean crap, I just had 3-4 different toys recalled that my kids have had for YEARS due to lead paint from crappy, no quality control factories. It's the F'in cheapest bottom line for these factories and I will not buy anything I can avoid from them.

Maxamps may be using cells from a better Chinese factory and at their price it's likely to be Chinese. Obviously quality and controls can change quickly at these factories so I will avoid them. Maxamps has avoided this question for quite some time and after the recent addition to their site that says they use "our own cells" I've dropped all hope. They are avoiding the question just like Schumacher who I won't use. Like I said, Maxamps seems to have superior pack creation techniques...why don't they choose superior cells to support that?
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:33 PM   #54
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Kuzo, monitoring what your kids do and what they use isnt a control freak, its being a responsible parent. Again, I respect your decision for using Orions stuff. They are excellent players in this game and I have nothing but respect for them. I think what deterred me from them initially was the cost, the Mah and the buzz that the packs dont fit all cars. At the time, $160 for a pack seemed un-Godly. Maxamps packs were at the time $80 for a 6000mah pack. Dimensions were slightly smaller than Orions AND Orion made it seem like you had to buy their charger. So, I went with Maxamps. All things considered, what works for whomever, as long as no ones house burns down, its all good. I still dont think they buy their cells from China, but hey, I dont work for them.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:33 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Kuzo, my bad. I too, am very concerned with many of the products coming from China and their lack of attention to detail and American standards AND how they cut corners. That said, MaxAmps says their stuff is made here in America, not assembled, but made in America. Their cells could be made in Uruguay for all we know. I'll say this, for me, the packs work and give me what I want. May not be bullet proof and may not have an "internal fuse", but, they have never failed me....and I put my cells through the ringer. Turbo joe, eat a fat one.
From: "http://www.maxamps.com/about.php"

Quote:
MaxAmps is a proven leader in the RC industry. Out of all the battery suppliers on the market, we were the first to offer lipos for rc cars. We also build our packs here in the USA to order so that you don’t get a pack that has been sitting on the shelf for months. You can order it any way you want including cells, plugs, taps, wire, and configuration
They "build...packs in the USA". Big deal, so does everybody. They buy cells from somewhere and build packs from them.

And I have seen a Maxamps pack fail. A week-old 6000 2S pack. It would dump in about 7-8 minutes with a full charge, while my lowly 4800 would go 15+. It was in a 4wd mod and the battery mounting post was pushing into the (soft) cell on hard landings. Meanwhile, my very first 4800 that I bought the first week they came out is still kickin'.

The cases save the cells from damage and make them last longer. Pretty simple. LiPos are soft and they need some protection if you want them to last a long time.

BTW -- "Eat a big fat one"? LOL You know how you can tell when a bully is losing an argument? They start acting like little kids and call people names or just hit them. Your parents must be proud of you as well.
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:10 AM   #56
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Ok, Joe, we will get back to intellect; considering you couldnt let it go way back when I first said this was getting stale. My first Maxamps pack I bougt over a year and a half ago....my car has been hit by a traxxas 4 tec w/3.3, an 1/8th scale serpent, run over by a 1:1...pack still going strong. I am not posting this to win an arguement, research my posts, you will see when I posted these occurences many months ago. Now, to negate what you are saying, maybe that individual you make mention of got a bad pack, who knows, I dont know what he did prior to your race. But, can you explain what happened with mine and no bad mishaps or flames? I dont have to lose an arguement with you, this isnt an arguement. You are making it seem like I am saying Maxamps is the best lipos, pitting them against Orions. Economically speaking and FROM MY EXPERIENCES THEY HAVE SUITED ME FINE. I guess thats the only way you can see the light. I am SPEAKING FROM MY EXPERIENCES, not what I have heard, or what I have read. I dont have to resort to calling you names, because if you think I am that much of *fill in your insult**, then you are equally one for debating with me in the first place...simp!
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:23 AM   #57
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To get this thread back on track I would recommend the orginal poster take the pack back to the shop for a refund and order either the orion 4800 or trakpower 4900.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:32 AM   #58
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Ummm...yeah...you don't have to resort to calling names.

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I dont have to resort to calling you names, because if you think I am that much of *fill in your insult**, then you are equally one for debating with me in the first place...simp!
Looks like you do.
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Old 08-27-2007, 11:49 AM   #59
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To get this thread back on track I would recommend the orginal poster take the pack back to the shop for a refund and order either the orion 4800 or trakpower 4900.
I have a Orion on order. I am also doing an equipment refresh like I did when I swithced to BL. My Novak Smart Tray bit the dust so I am trashing it. I am selling my 4200's (8 months old). I have an ICE charger. Do I need a balancer?

Yeah this thread has gone all over the place
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:00 PM   #60
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I have a Orion on order. I am also doing an equipment refresh like I did when I swithced to BL. My Novak Smart Tray bit the dust so I am trashing it. I am selling my 4200's (8 months old). I have an ICE charger. Do I need a balancer?

Yeah this thread has gone all over the place
Sorry about that...

You can pick up a balancer but you won't use it often.

I haven't tried it but I'm hearing good things:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRWF8&P=7

I like that the leads are prewired.
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