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Old 08-22-2007, 01:05 PM   #1
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Default Li-Awesome Vs. Li-sux

Here is a thread where good vs. bad LiPo cells can be discussed...


It's all yours syndr0me
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:12 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
Many of us feel we've reached that point with Kokam's cells. It's unfortunate they're even called LiPo, because that nomenclature puts them on the same plane as the cheap-ass chinese cells that cause the problems. When in reality, they're massively different.

Maybe Kokam should call their cells Li-Awesome, and we can call the other cells Li-Sux, and be done with it.
Hahha, nice.

My point with the whole thing, is that in regard to LiPo safety, all batteries are grouped together. This is deeply unfortunate, because the safety from one cell to the next can be so radically different. To further exacerbate the problem, the safe cells are the most expensive, and R/C isn't exactly a hobby full of people looking to pay for quality.

So, my proposal (which was a joke) was a new naming scheme to differentiate the safe cells from the dangerous ones, rather than calling them all LiPo. It's like being dragged down by your fat, ugly cousin simple because you share a little blood.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:14 PM   #3
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LOl,this really is a good Idea though.well lets here it.What lipos batt are the safe ones?

1.Orion
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:16 PM   #4
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Whats the verdict on the Trakpower 4900 in the gold case? Safe or Unsafe?
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:16 PM   #5
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This thread has potential..... When you are staring it off with your ugly fat cousin, you are going places! LOL!!

Locally Tim Potter (Moderator) has been pushing the benefits of LiPo for sometime now. He has been alone in his crusade. I have run his LiPo (Orion) pack and it sure is nice to be able to run-charge-run-charge-run.....

With the advent of brushless motors the hobby is taking a Maintenance free approach. More time to focus on driving skill and set-up ability.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:19 PM   #6
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Whats the verdict on the Trakpower 4900 in the gold case? Safe or Unsafe?
I've heard the Enerland cells that Trakpower uses are pretty safe. I haven't heard great things about their cycle life, though.

We need some kind of definitive source of information on safety. These cells obviously have to be tested for this in order to meet certain criteria in regard to shipping. I'm just not sure where to find said data. Maybe linger knows?
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
It's like being dragged down by your fat, ugly cousin simple because you share a little blood.
I have one (or more) of those! One actually goes to my college... I haven't told anyone... but I'm sure she's told all her friends about me.

The problem with naming them Awesome vs. Sux, is that no one will want to say their product "sux." It would be like the total flop of the Chevy Nova in Mexico. Hardly any were sold there while it was one of the most popular in America. The difference, "Nova" means "no go" in spanish. I think that simply the brand names will be sufficient once the word gets out since everyone compares products on their own personal biases of good brands vs. bad brands. Good = Orion/Peak, Bad = most others. Second problem is, which brands are good, which bad? With many available it's hard for the uninformed to make such a distinction other than going by what the guy at their lhs says.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:25 PM   #8
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Kokam has a Safety and Certification page that states what type of testing they have done...

http://www.kokam.com/english/product...safety_02.html
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:27 PM   #9
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The awesome Vs. Suks was simply used to inject some humor into a topic that was evidently void of it... Seriously though, it can be based on a racers experience and while each persons experience is unique we may be able to see a pattern form and then make an educated guess at which brand (awesome or suks) is the culprit.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:27 PM   #10
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I guess it's worth noting that even Kokam's cells can be ignited with enough effort, though it sounds reasonably difficult without doing it intentionally, and quite a bit less spectacular than some of its Chinese counterparts.

From the LiPo Awareness thread:

Quote:
The first step in safety is a top quality cell construction (see quality control). The elimination of contaminants and internal shorts is good prevention. Iíve tested enough cells to know that there is not a single Lipo cell on the market that can take an extreme overcharge condition without going up in flames. The distributors that show a little video about how the cells ďcanítĒ be ignited through overcharging are sending the wrong message. Give the cell to me, I guarantee you that I can ignite it (except for the A123 Li-Ion cell). The next step in safety is the cell design itself. Most of the China cells use pure LiCo2 coating on the cathode which is the most volatile and also the most powerful molecule. That way, they have a great looking discharge curve for the first few cycles. Most of the top tier cells will have other additives that greatly reduce the volatility and also suppresses voltage slightly. This means that the cell can take a higher temperature before it reaches thermal runaway, and even if it does reach thermal runaway, the resultant flame is much less. Iíve purposely overcharged and ignited China Lipoís and all of them turn into immense flamethrowers that burn for about 30 seconds. When I purposely ignited a Kokam cell, itís chemistry self extinguished in about 2 seconds Ė the flame was an order of magnitude less than itís China counterpart. Furthermore, the Kokam cells use the negative tab as a built in overcurrent fuse. If you short out the cell, the negative tab vaporizes and creates an open circuit.
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I've heard the Enerland cells that Trakpower uses are pretty safe. I haven't heard great things about their cycle life, though.

We need some kind of definitive source of information on safety. These cells obviously have to be tested for this in order to meet certain criteria in regard to shipping. I'm just not sure where to find said data. Maybe linger knows?
linger tests lipos all day long as his career/job. so i would say he's a DEFINITIVE source. but he's away in austria right now on business.

ill let him know about the thread when he comes back.

my personal preference aligns with butter. since going lipo/BL.. ive had more time to learn my car and learn about setting it up. which in the long run has definitely helped.

as a funny note, i prefer a fire over an explosion.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:06 PM   #12
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Bring back the GP-3300's!
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:12 PM   #13
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P-170's baby!!!!!!!! One run and done!!
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:20 PM   #14
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I had an Orion 3200 that lasted less than 20 seconds and then went open circuit. Does that mean I should put it in the sux category? Well, technically 20 seconds is an exageration. It did take 45 minutes to charge before lasting 20 seconds.

The battery has been sent off to Orion to determine what went wrong. I'm not sure if they have received it yet but I've heard nothing back from them.
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Old 08-22-2007, 02:22 PM   #15
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I think that paritcular situation is rated SUKS!!! The point is every type of cell has its detractions....some just melt your face when they blow.
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