Question about Team Orion Li-po and MRC chargers
08-17-2007, 11:49 AM
#16
Squating, thats what I figure. Unless Orion's pack has some threshold that MRC doesnt recognize, I dont see how it wouldnt work. I was going to contact them, but the bias seems to be partially warranted. I do know the early 977's converted had PRAH-blums. My 977 has pereformed very well. I'll have to do something because my Pro3 needs a lipo and the Maxamps packs are too thick. The only reason I am considering Orion 3200 is because its made to resemble a sub c pack. Aside of that, Maxamps has gotten my business and will continue to get it for my other cars.
08-17-2007, 12:49 PM
#17
I look at it this way: I'm just a consumer. I'm no expert in battery or charger technology. If someone like Team Orion, who I consider quite knowledgeable, says that they do not recommend a product, I'm going give their recommendation some consideration. In addition, out of all the chargers on the market, they are only singling out MRC.
Bottom line for me is, I'm going to buy another charger. Yes, some people may have had no problems charging lipo batteries - or other batteries for that matter, but there are quite a number of other chargers out there that Team Orion doesn't have an issue with. IMO, there is enough "resonable doubt" to warrant purchasing another product.
BTW: I did email MRC to give them an opportunity to respond to Team Orion's claims, but have not received a reply to date. If I do ever get a response, I'll be sure to post it here.
Bottom line for me is, I'm going to buy another charger. Yes, some people may have had no problems charging lipo batteries - or other batteries for that matter, but there are quite a number of other chargers out there that Team Orion doesn't have an issue with. IMO, there is enough "resonable doubt" to warrant purchasing another product.
BTW: I did email MRC to give them an opportunity to respond to Team Orion's claims, but have not received a reply to date. If I do ever get a response, I'll be sure to post it here.
08-17-2007, 01:05 PM
#18
RMD, um, didnt you see where I said that team orion's bias may be partially warranted? Or did you miss that part? I say this, if Kokam makes the cells for Team Orion and you can buy Kokam cells directly, then why hasnt Kokam placed that disclaimer???
08-17-2007, 01:37 PM
#19
Kokam is a Korean company. I have no idea how liability and litigation works in Korea or how you file a law suit against a company in a foreign country. I can't speak for Kokam of course, but after having read their Safety Certification page (click here), I can imagine that they will only make statements regarding their own products and not that of others - but, they do make quite a number of interesting comments regarding chargers on this page: click here - which almost comes across as a disclaimer that people should only use their chargers.
08-17-2007, 02:02 PM
#20
I use my superbrain 989 for
Used to charge max amps packs for minis
My micro t
And my E revo..
I sold off all my lipos because I didnt want them anymore, that was DUMB!
But I have had zero problems
Used to charge max amps packs for minis
My micro t
And my E revo..
I sold off all my lipos because I didnt want them anymore, that was DUMB!
But I have had zero problems
08-17-2007, 03:36 PM
#21
Tech Elite
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Louisville, KY!.. USA!! ....Home of http://www.fastharry.com
Posts: 2,847
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Yeti, the 969, which came right before the 977, was supposed to be able to charge lipo and lets just say, there were some nasty failures. The 977, I set the amount of cells, mah, amps and the charger automatically recognizes the lipo pack and sets an automatic cut-off at 8.28 volts (2s2p).
Kuzo, I am almost positive that problem was with the 969 with the "updated" chip to make it a 977. This still crashed and burned, no pun intended. MRC got rid of the chip idea and remanufactured the whole charger set-up. Been working like a charm.
Makes sense they may have had some problems with the early batch of "re-chipped 969/977". I know I have fallen asleep (
)while charging with mine, and it always cuts off at 8.28 volts AND, locks the voltage in, preventing the pack from discharging/trickling more than it would if it was sitting alone, unplugged.
Guess this is intriguing me because I am setting up my Pro 3 and my Maxamps 6000 pack doesnt fit. I was looking at Team Orions 3200 and the disclaimer threw me for a loop. Unless someone can suggest some sub c's that give excellent run time, I am at a nasty cross road.
Kuzo, I am almost positive that problem was with the 969 with the "updated" chip to make it a 977. This still crashed and burned, no pun intended. MRC got rid of the chip idea and remanufactured the whole charger set-up. Been working like a charm.
Makes sense they may have had some problems with the early batch of "re-chipped 969/977". I know I have fallen asleep (
)while charging with mine, and it always cuts off at 8.28 volts AND, locks the voltage in, preventing the pack from discharging/trickling more than it would if it was sitting alone, unplugged.Guess this is intriguing me because I am setting up my Pro 3 and my Maxamps 6000 pack doesnt fit. I was looking at Team Orions 3200 and the disclaimer threw me for a loop. Unless someone can suggest some sub c's that give excellent run time, I am at a nasty cross road.
how can I tell if my 977 is a rebadged 969, or a new one?...
08-17-2007, 04:48 PM
#22
rmd-not necessarily suing kokam, but they are distributed through portals outside of Orion. I belive MRC gaffed orion off and orion said "we'll show you"...it worked, we are still talking about this. I did read their disclaimer before I made the post. I never type something without doing the geico caveman research first. FMA direct sells Kokam cells, right here in the good ole USA, no MRC disclaimer. Do you see what I am saying? Seems like Orion has a bit of bias.
blacked out revo-maxamps rock! you sold your lipos? why? did you go 5 cell on us?
fastharry-I know when the 969 first came out, they had the problems. They sent out a recall and offered the consumer the choice of 1-sending it in or 2-they send the upgrade for the user to install<------BAD!!!!. From what I heard, not seen but heard, they were sending the first batch in cases labelled 969, but instructions had 977 on them. To lessen the confusion, they did away with the 969 altogether and when they marketed the 977, they specified that it is totally revamped from the 969. I learned all this AFTER buying the charger. Was nervous as hell, charging lipo packs in mayonnaise jars lol
. I actually constructed a longer charge cord through a hole I made in the lid of the jar, plugged the battery in and sealed the lid to charge. That was ridiculous after awhile...obviously.
blacked out revo-maxamps rock! you sold your lipos? why? did you go 5 cell on us?
fastharry-I know when the 969 first came out, they had the problems. They sent out a recall and offered the consumer the choice of 1-sending it in or 2-they send the upgrade for the user to install<------BAD!!!!. From what I heard, not seen but heard, they were sending the first batch in cases labelled 969, but instructions had 977 on them. To lessen the confusion, they did away with the 969 altogether and when they marketed the 977, they specified that it is totally revamped from the 969. I learned all this AFTER buying the charger. Was nervous as hell, charging lipo packs in mayonnaise jars lol
. I actually constructed a longer charge cord through a hole I made in the lid of the jar, plugged the battery in and sealed the lid to charge. That was ridiculous after awhile...obviously.
Last edited by bxpitbull; 08-17-2007 at 05:08 PM.
08-17-2007, 05:02 PM
#23
Tech Elite
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Louisville, KY!.. USA!! ....Home of http://www.fastharry.com
Posts: 2,847
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
rmd-not necessarily suing kokam, but they are distributed through portals outside of Orion. I belive MRC gaffed orion off and orion said "we'll show you"...it worked, we are still talking about this. I did read their disclaimer before I made the post. I never type something without doing the geico caveman research first. FMA direct sells Kokam cells, right here in the good ole USA, no MRC disclaimer. Do you see what I am saying? Seems like Orion has a bit of bias.
blacked out revo-maxamps rock! you sold your lipos? why? did you go 5 cell on us?
fastharry-I know when the 969 first came out, they had the problems. They sent out a recall and offered the consumer the choice of 1-sending it in or 2-they send the upgrade for the user to install<------BAD!!!!. From what I heard, not seen but heard, they were sending the first batch in cases labelled 969, but instructions had 977 on them. To lessen the confusion, they did away with the 969 altogether and when they marketed the 977, the specified that it is totally revamped from the 969. I learned all this AFTER buying the charger. Was nervous as hell, charging lipo packs in mayonnaise jars lol. I actually constructed a longer charge cord through a hole I made in the lid of the jar, plugged the battery in and sealed the lid to charge. That was ridiculous after awhile...obviously.
blacked out revo-maxamps rock! you sold your lipos? why? did you go 5 cell on us?
fastharry-I know when the 969 first came out, they had the problems. They sent out a recall and offered the consumer the choice of 1-sending it in or 2-they send the upgrade for the user to install<------BAD!!!!. From what I heard, not seen but heard, they were sending the first batch in cases labelled 969, but instructions had 977 on them. To lessen the confusion, they did away with the 969 altogether and when they marketed the 977, the specified that it is totally revamped from the 969. I learned all this AFTER buying the charger. Was nervous as hell, charging lipo packs in mayonnaise jars lol
. I actually constructed a longer charge cord through a hole I made in the lid of the jar, plugged the battery in and sealed the lid to charge. That was ridiculous after awhile...obviously.so if you have a charger labeled 977....you are good to go?....regardless when you bought it?...
thanks
08-17-2007, 05:06 PM
#24
Harry, any tips on setting up my r40? I know this is electric, but so what. Got the red dot, 1015t coming, tons of springs. got the jaco shoes, Proline stratus racing body. Havent raced nitro competitively, so anything you can relay will be appreciated.
08-17-2007, 05:27 PM
#25
Orion isn't the only company offering this warning. From PFM/Apogee's site:
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain "x" charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
Source: http://www.pfmdistribution.com/faq2.html
I think that some Lipo's can handle a peak voltage slightly above 8.4 because I have seen a "4.25V" option on other chargers before...perhaps that is why some have had problems and others have not.
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain "x" charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
Source: http://www.pfmdistribution.com/faq2.html
I think that some Lipo's can handle a peak voltage slightly above 8.4 because I have seen a "4.25V" option on other chargers before...perhaps that is why some have had problems and others have not.
08-17-2007, 05:40 PM
#27
In stock brushless racing the battery charge will be one of the biggest tuning options.
Its coming.
One of the hold ups is that sub-c is king in stock. Once some one has mastered the over charge method it will be revealed.
08-17-2007, 05:46 PM
#28
Orion isn't the only company offering this warning. From PFM/Apogee's site:
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain "x" charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
Source: http://www.pfmdistribution.com/faq2.html
I think that some Lipo's can handle a peak voltage slightly above 8.4 because I have seen a "4.25V" option on other chargers before...perhaps that is why some have had problems and others have not.
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain "x" charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
Source: http://www.pfmdistribution.com/faq2.html
I think that some Lipo's can handle a peak voltage slightly above 8.4 because I have seen a "4.25V" option on other chargers before...perhaps that is why some have had problems and others have not.
08-17-2007, 06:14 PM
#29
Orion isn't the only company offering this warning. From PFM/Apogee's site:
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain "x" charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
Source: http://www.pfmdistribution.com/faq2.html
I think that some Lipo's can handle a peak voltage slightly above 8.4 because I have seen a "4.25V" option on other chargers before...perhaps that is why some have had problems and others have not.
"Q: Can I use an MRC Superbrain "x" charger for my lithium packs?
A: No. We will NOT warranty any packs that have failed while using this charger. We can also tell which packs have been charged with an MRC charger. Until MRC adopts the correct constant current/constant voltage (CCCV) charging schema for their chargers, terminating voltage at no more than 4.2V per cell, we will not endorse their products as being lithium compatible."
Source: http://www.pfmdistribution.com/faq2.html
I think that some Lipo's can handle a peak voltage slightly above 8.4 because I have seen a "4.25V" option on other chargers before...perhaps that is why some have had problems and others have not.
08-17-2007, 09:37 PM
#30
Do they use kokam cells? this is strictly about kokam/orion cells. Not to mention, that disclaimer more than likely came out before MRC installed the upgrade which I have spoke about rather extensively throughout this thread. Did you not see where I typed," the 977 charges to 8.28 for 2s2p and shuts off automatically". If you attempt to peak, the highest it goes will be 8.3 volts. trust me, I have tried to get to 8.4, aint happening. Everyone knows that manufacturers are slow when it comes to updating those "general q&a" sections. Nice try.
I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but now that you have emphasized that your updated charger only charges up to just less than 8.3V, I am more convinced to stay away from it and recommend alternatives to others. The only info I know about lipos is what I have learned through this forum, but one thing I know for sure is that a 2cell lipo (whether it is 2P or not) is not considered fully charged until it reaches 8.4V. The difference between 8.3 and 8.4 on the track is pretty significant from a racer's perspective...I've pulled a battery off the charger early before and regretted it. The Checkpoint and ICE chargers don't even bother switching to CV mode until the battery reaches 8.4V.
It seems that MRC may have touched both extremes...going from a charger that is so aggressive that it will swell some batteries to a charger that is so conservative it undercharges them.