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Old 10-09-2007, 02:49 PM   #181
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Suggestions... is it possible to manufacture a tire that is 90-95% of the performance of an "A" main tire to use in club races, and have it be maybe $7.99 to $9.99 a pair instead of $17.50 for a pair ? I mean is it possible to even make a fair profit this way ?

I know nobody likes to erode price points with everything getting more expensive like labor and energy, but ... a lot of club guys have mediocre setup at best, cone tires when they hit stuff and get camber off, break wheels, chunk tires, etc. Many of them don't have truers although we have one at the track sometimes it's hard to get time to use it. Race-thickness foam on a tough rim at a cheap price with good performance for club races, I would think, would sell well. I thought of this on Saturday when I found some older version tires for less than half price and I'm thinking this is a good way to go for most people most of the time. I wish we had a "legitimate" racing tire at half price for the masses, something to run at least until they are contending for an A, B, or C main finish at a big race.

I can also understand if you only want to position your product to the high end mostly. Sometimes people get the wrong idea on your quality when you have both a "Cadillac" and a "Cavalier" version of products.

By the way thanks for answering my earlier post. Sounds like you are saying I can get 90%+ of the way there with DPi (maybe DPiO front) and a different tire choice would only be used if I couldn't get my setup "just right" for a given track. So a club racer stock and/or 19T who occasionally travels could get away with just DPi and DPiO tires in his bag, then if needed at a big event, if he needed something different, just pick it up there.

I also appreciate your explanations of foam tires, construction, etc. it helps me understand much better how all this works and understand why certain setups and tire combinations work better.
There are a lot of steps required to assemble a foam tire. We slice the skin from the sheets, grade the rubber by durometer, cut the sheets to the correct thickness, laminate the sheets to achieve the desired width, cut the tire on the waterjet, mount the tire to the wheel, true the tire, clean the tire, dot the tire, then package and ship the finished product. Also, the foam tire market is very small in relation to the whole R/C car industry (and shrinking, unfortunately). Compared to the work required to make a molded tire, we have much more time involved. To be honest, foam tires should probably be more expensive than they are based on the amount of labor it takes to produce a single tire. We have automated some of the steps, but we cannot automate everything because it still involves constant checking to assure quality. Anytime you are gluing something, you have to be very careful everything is right or you could have disasterous results.

With that said, I think you will be seeing our tires available more and more online and in shops for discounted prices. We are going to get very aggressive in our pricing this year, so hopefully it will benefit the average racer. Since we are the manufacturer and not an importer or middle man, we are able to pass on larger discounts to our distributors and dealers. This should mean lower prices to the consumer in the end.
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:07 PM   #182
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How about some donuts then?
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:28 PM   #183
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mmmmmmmmmm

dooooonuuuuts
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:30 PM   #184
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When we offered donuts, sales were horrible. No one wants to mount tires anymore, evidently.
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:12 PM   #185
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Can't you still make a small profit on donuts? It's half the work for you. Even if I had to special order them, I would. It's such a waste to throw these perfectly good rims away. If we had some donuts, we could reuse the rims and save a few bucks while we are at it. You should consider offering them again (even if it's through 1 reseller), as the market has changed. Gas prices are up and people are trying to save a few bucks. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be many competitors selling donuts right now.
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:21 PM   #186
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Jack can you check your pms please
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:46 PM   #187
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I'll give a sincere review. You can rest assured that I don't get tires at a discount or free, and that I generally disagree with Jack on just about everything R/C related. So...

I never liked the original Jacos or 2 stages. I found that they peeled very easily, and were generally less durable than Parma or GQ (most durable, and best glued of any tire I've used). Anyway, I tried Parma Pro 53's when they came out, and was fairly disappointed. I've never had a tire peel so easily, in spite of using more camber as some suggested. So, I pulled the trigger on the new Jaco's and tried them tonight. By the end of the night, I had the shop order me four more pairs. I love the way the wheels look, the tires held up great, being pre-trued is like a dream, and the price seems very reasonable. So, dirty as it feels, I have to admit that I like the new Prisms. Good job guys.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:23 AM   #188
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Just trying to get a straight answer when it pertains to the NEW SEDAN WHEEL. I don't care about 1/12, the old 2-stage design, how many the shop sold, or the feedback. You seem to be using all that to divert attention away from the question that I asked.

Ask a straight question, and get a verbose reply with a bunch of irrelevant information. There might be a government job in your future.

From the numbers I've seen posted, it looks like the majority of foam sedan A-Main drivers were on something other than the new Prism wheel. Another brand TQ'd & won Stock and Mod, and the old design TQ'd & won 19 Turn.

Prism sedan wheel at the IIC = 0 TQs, 0 wins, fewer in the foam
sedan A-Mains.

However, if the tables were turned, I'm sure we all would've seen a post in here reporting their dominance on Sunday night, Sept 30th. Correct?
Who is Liar???



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Old 10-16-2007, 10:43 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
With that said, I think you will be seeing our tires available more and more online and in shops for discounted prices. We are going to get very aggressive in our pricing this year, so hopefully it will benefit the average racer. Since we are the manufacturer and not an importer or middle man, we are able to pass on larger discounts to our distributors and dealers. This should mean lower prices to the consumer in the end.
Jack isn't kidding here guys, it's been a long time since someone has been able to raise the bar on performance while lowering the bar on price. Many guys have moved over to the new product at our local track and they are all going faster and certainly spending less money doing it.

While I have the podium here I just have to say that the 12th scale Prism tire is hands down the best ever made. For the past few months in testing I have watched cars go from bad to good and good to great with nothing more than a tire swap to the new product. Truly excellent design work in action.

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Old 10-16-2007, 11:41 AM   #190
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TRUE!! Thanks Nick
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:19 PM   #191
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That's a good thought, but it's not a shimming issue. Compare side by side to a competing 38mm wheel. Give them a squeeze and notice the difference. The Prisms flex the most. It might be ok for road course, but when running 2.0 degrees camber for oval, the inside of the wheel flexes too much. (I'm running 13.5 brushless speeds.) I estimate it's flexing 2-3mm!
It cut a groove into the inside of the wheel, split the color dot in half. I'm not going to add shims to the the top of the kingpin which would not only compress the spring but lose travel.
James - The Prism is still stiffer (approximately 15%) than the old "Aero Force" wheel (a 35mm wheel) and it is 37mm in diameter. If you run the same king pin/shimming there will be no way possible that the king pin will touch the rim's ID.

As far as the camber - This is completely irrelevent - You could run 10 degrees of camber and the result would still be the same - The pivot ball in the suspension arm is the axis that your camber is adjusted through. With this in mind from 0-infinite camber, the king pin is in the exact same position in the wheel with no change in distance to the ID or the wheel.

We have had several oval racers run the Prism's in 1/12 oval (stock, 19T and Mod) and no one has had any sort of issue.
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:15 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by xtaiji View Post
Who is Liar???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
We TQ'd and won 19 turn (on 2-stage)
I dunno, you tell me. The owner of Jaco himself said Dumas won 19-turn on the old design. I guess he's a liar too, right?

The picture you posted must be his modified car, or taken earlier in the weekend.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:13 AM   #193
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I dunno, you tell me. The owner of Jaco himself said Dumas won 19-turn on the old design. I guess he's a liar too, right?

The picture you posted must be his modified car, or taken earlier in the weekend.
Hey Toot, despite your efforts to somehow diminish our accomplishments at the IIC, we are seeing record sales of the Prism sedan and 1/12 tires. Not to mention our rubber tires. Talk is cheap.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:21 AM   #194
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Hey Toot, despite your efforts to somehow diminish our accomplishments at the IIC, we are seeing record sales of the Prism sedan and 1/12 tires. Not to mention our rubber tires. Talk is cheap.
Vanilla Ice sold over 11 million records, too.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:33 AM   #195
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And he is laughing at you all the way to the bank.
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