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Old 06-23-2010, 03:04 AM   #811
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Default lipo tray

tnx!!
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:19 AM   #812
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I swear I put a post here yesterday.

Anyway that battery tray is from Diggety Design. You may need a new set of holes.

http://www.diggitydesigns.com/D3_TC5...eExtended.html
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:35 PM   #813
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Thread Restart

Whoa!! What is that in the pic. Well it's a new Associated TC5R. So What I plan to do is phase out my Losi XXXS for mod thread and continue here with this new car. I plan to run Mod TC at Mikes-HobbyShop.com, I have been doing well with the Losi and am usually in second place. What I expect with this new car is improved braking and maybe some benefits from the thinner chassis and ITF (increased torsional flex) top plate.

I know that Associated plans to release a new TC later this year. Maybe a TC5.1


So what is new with the kit over my previous TC5
  • The chassis is 2.0 mm instead of 3.0 mm for added flex
  • The R kit comes with an increased torsional flex top plate. I tinkered with homemade versions not to far back in this thread.
  • The kit comes with O-rings and washers to add additional flex to the top plate.
  • Not much else is different that I noticed.
I plan to develop the setup from more or less scratch as the surface is a new layer of asphalt. It has not been sealed and is about 1 year old.

I temporarily installed a battery rail inboard to balance the side to side and corner weights well. It angles the back of the battery out. It sticks out from the side .350 at front and .425 at the rear. This gives me even side to side weights and equal corner weights front and back. The Diggety design offset fence for the TC5 is on the way. I did not find the Associated tray available where I usually shop. I also did not like it as much from viewing a picture of it.

What else is new
Speed Control
The LRP SPX8 is about identically useful as the old LRP TC edition that is in the same case. That is the speed control I like for hot weather and mod TC now. The LRP SXX TC edition proved unsuitable for our track and catches fire or ceases to function.

Connectors
I have upgraded connectors from deans to a 6mm connector by Great Plains that is not like a banana plug but has thin slots so that the male wedges into the female opening. These hold up to the 200 dyno measured full throttle amps that we pull with the TC. Since they wedge in place they don't lose tension with age.

Batteries
The Thunderpower 40C and 50C batteries have good resistance to puffing up in the heat. When new they need to go past 140F before they puff up. With well over 60 cycles on the 40 C pack this hardiness is a little weaker and they may puff slightly in a hard hot 6 minute run. I believe that one new 50C 5200 thunder power pack that I own does not puff at all yet. It has about 20 cycles.

Some tests to come
The Associated Slipper spool pads with Aluminum outdrives compared to the TIR (Titanium Racing) spool I used to use (looks like they may be out of buisiness or in administration whatever that means). I like slipper spools a lot. I will see if this particular one holds up.

TC5 vs TC5R

New inward motor position.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-type-r-001.jpg  
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-05-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:24 AM   #814
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Nice job!

I wait for more info maybe it will help for my R's :-)
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:57 AM   #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
I know that Associated plans to release a new TC later this year. Maybe a TC5.1
It should be the TC6.
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TC5 vs TC5R

New inward motor position.
With stock parts/positioning, the TC5 and TC5R should be the same. From your pictures, it looks like your bulkheads are blue and I think the "UK bulkheads" only come unanodized. Did you mod the stock bulkheads with a dremel to bring the motor mount inline with the bulkhead?
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:31 PM   #816
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Blue Eagle-The second quote is from the possible future tests sections. No I have not modded the motor side bulkhead yet. Where do you pick up a 3rd point of support for the motor mount when you do so.

First Track Test TC5R 97F air temp 138 F track temp

The setup that I put on the car worked really well. I saw no need to improve it at this point. It is similar to the old TC5, that I had, but I used silver springs front and back. Combined with low roll centers and the supplied thick sway bars ( I made one new one .050 thick to match the thickest one in the kit), the car was really planted on the track even though I had not treated the track today. The transition from braking to corner entry on power was so much smoother than the Losi XXXS that I have been running. Braking was more predictable and gettig me to a nice tight corner entry after only a couple of laps. Performance in the high speed chicane was good. Peformance on a high speed off power right hander was good with no hint of losing the back end. These two turns are primarily what makes or breaks a good lap time on this high speed track. The car was noticeably more supple and planted than my previous TC5 but was also sprung slightly softer.

The session was not without trouble. I noticed the car was accelerating and slowing about 2-3 times on the straight. Sometimes this is a traction problem as you overspin the tires, but in this case, I think it was the speed control having some periods of internal arcing. The car stopped after 2/3 a pack. Speed control and motor temps were only 150F as it was early in the run. I let the car cool with fans on, on the bench. After 2 minutes the speed control "gave up the smoke" which it requires to run properly; it was toast. I had geared the new car at 9.13 compared to the Losi which was running at 8.66 for quite a few months now. Even at this same track temp. In other words the TC5 was geared lower. Now chances are the LRP SPX8 speed control had just reached its lifetime under the severe conditions of high amp draw, high temperatures, and medium traction. I plan to put the Tekin RX8 in its place. It is a little more rugged.
John
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Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-05-2010 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:07 PM   #817
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Blue Eagle-The second quote is from the possible future tests sections. No I have not modded the motor side bulkhead yet.
Ahh, my mistake. I've followed your thread ever since I picked up a TC5 a little over a year ago, so I'm always super interested in what's going on here. Apologies for jumping the gun.

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Where do you pick up a 3rd point of support for the motor mount when you do so.
The team drivers seem to deem it unnecessary, though they do recommend 48P gears if you do this.

See Rich Hohwart's posts here, here, and here. The mod and mods like it are discussed quite a few times with no particular approach appearing best, other than fairly universal support of the new motor position.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:20 PM   #818
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Blue Eagle-Thanks for the links. Here is the relevant quote from the first.

"Where the motor mount and bulkhead originally overlap, 50% of the material from each piece has been removed so that the two parts can still be screwed together."

You grind away half the thickness of the parts where they ovelap so that third screw can still be used.

I will do this soon before my LiPo tray gets secured. This will lower my polar moment on the vertical axis and bring the battery in just a little over its present position. The chicane may be handled slightly better as a result.

now the new car (TC5.1 or 6) changes the position of the spur to the middle between the two belts. A 13 mm movement to the inside for the motor is promised.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:26 PM   #819
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Moving the Motor inboard
Ok the mod is done. Here are some details and some bench results. Firstly I was interested in the maximum movement possible while keeping the same center shaft. I was willing to lose one rear leg off the top plate. I had experimented with narrow top plates previously with good success. I moved the motor .3 inches or 7.6 mm inward.

First when I had thought about buying this car, I wondered if you could mount the motor plate inboard of the long side plate. The answer is yes. I used a small drill press and a 5/16 milling cutter and milled the inside of the bulkhead as shown in the pic. I marked it out by mounting the motor plate on the inside and marking its outline. I milled down until this #8 associated aluminum washer (.050 thick) would sit flush in the cut. I made cuts in three places and smoothed the points out with the Dremel.

I countersunk 3 holes in a 90 Kimborough spur for flat head screws. I countersunk the inside of the motor plate for that 3rd securing screw. The screw ended up about .050 below the surface to allow adequate clearance on the spur screws. I removed excess aluminum that touched the spur with a Dremel and 1.25 inch fiberglass cutoff wheel. You can see in the view of the flat head screws on the spur that aluminum was relieved to clear the wide part of the spur near the teeth. Less aluminum was removed to clear the area of the flat head screws. I relieved until the installed spur would rotate easy.

The motor is very secure and stiff. Much more so that on setups that have that third screw removed.

The chassis is more limber. I can stiffen it if necessary.

The battery is now straight and only sticks out about .1 inch to obtain side to side balance and good corner weights.

I was able to move the speed control inward another .1 or .2 inches.

Note pic 2 of the bottom shows how much the motor moved in by comparing the original motor plate holes to the new ones that now have screws installed.
Note in pic 2 that battery only sticks out a little instead of the .425 inch previous measure.
Note in pic 4 that the pinion is now inverted.

Track report in a week or so when the new speed control comes in.

john
Attached Thumbnails
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-motor-moved-7mm-inboard-002.jpg   Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-motor-moved-7mm-inboard-003.jpg   Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-motor-moved-7mm-inboard-004.jpg   Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-motor-moved-7mm-inboard-005.jpg   Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-motor-moved-7mm-inboard-006.jpg  

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Old 07-05-2010, 09:44 PM   #820
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John,

I have been running my own version of the altered (but some what more extensively altered) motor mount for around 6months now and have found it to be quite good.
I will pm you some photos.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:09 PM   #821
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John,

I will pm you some photos.
Post them there

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Old 07-12-2010, 10:54 PM   #822
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Just some notes from Fatheads install-The diffs are swapped putting the spur full right. The motor mount is moved to mesh. New center shaft uprights are required without caps. A new handlayed top plate was fashioned to curve up around the motor; it is humped. Very nice looking install from the top.

Motor moved inward .3 inches. Final Install with Tekin RX8

Here is my finished install with the Tekin RX8. I was able to move this heavy speed control inward a full half inch without the left side of the top plate. Satisfactory torsional stiffness still exists on the whole chassis and it it seems even twisting both ways. The speed control has full tape on its bottom to add to stiffness. The front of the battery ended up even with the outer edge of the chassis and just clearing the belt. The back of the battery is moved out .185 inch to get the corner weights in perfect shape. I used the Diggety Design offset TC5 battery fence (upside down) and put two new holes in the chassis and one new hole in the forward end of the brace. I used the stock battery top strap and uprights. I shimmed the battery brace up .1 inch with a thick washer. I used longer screws to secure the battery uprights. I am very pleased at this point. Possible test tomorrow.
  • 2 motor fans are fed battery voltage
  • The speed control fan is thermally activated
  • I ran a big Novak capacitor straight from a GTB controller to the Tekin RX8, There is extra circuitry included in the shrink. I am hoping it will benefit the Tekin as well as the GTB. A capacitor or a double capacitor is recommended by Tekin.
  • I also run a receiver capacitor to keep a full throttle run from shutting off the receiver, it is on the chassis next to the half height servo.
  • I mounted all components to minimize rotational inertia on the vertical axis. It should be good in the chicane.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-tekin-rx8-motor-offset-001.jpg  
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:01 PM   #823
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Track Test, 97F, 134F track temp

I went to the big track and they are closed to practice for the Worlds 1/10 IC (Internal Combustion) championships. The race starts on the 21'st and runs 10 full days. I had a very small alternate track in Houston that I run a 13.5 powered TC4. It was the only avenue so I tested the 3.5 powered TC5 with the new new inward motor and speed control position. I ended up on Sorex 36R tires. After a couple of runs, I felt very comfortable with the car. It was slipping through the chicane faster than the TC4 which at the moment is more stiffly sprung. I may change the TC4 to silver springs like I have on the TC5. I was able to achieve full throttle, if only for a few milliseconds, on the straight. The car rocketed forward in a nice straight line. Quickly to full brakes. I felt no sloppiness or lack of precision which you might expect from too much flex. The car was dialed with only a tire change. The chassis when fully outfited with battery and a tightened down graphite top strap, and speed control fully taped down has plenty of stiffness left even though I have removed the left side of the ITF top plate.

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Old 08-08-2010, 04:51 PM   #824
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Track Session
I had another short practice session with the car. It has been a long time since the last due to the 1/10 IC Worlds held at my home track. Practice was closed for 2weeks prior to the event and for the 10 day event. It almost felt like I was on a new layout. Anyway the car performed very well. The new TEKIN R8 tolerated the 137 F track temp well. The motor came off at 160 F after a good long run. I plan to gear up a tooth. There was residual traction from the worlds still on the track. I was able to reduce brakes to 30%. Brakes were very efficient and smooth. I was able to make turns tight on the markers after braking. This was a shortcoming of the Losi XXXS which could brake strongly but was always skipping the belt so it was somewhat imprecise.

I had some teething problems. The front inner A-arm mount lost a screw. These are those impossible to tighten screws on the car. Fortunately this is improved on the next model. It's best after tightening them with a ball tip to tighten them with a small L-wrench if possible. In the second run I lost a cvd pin. It would be good to recheck those allen screws and pivot screws on a new kit.

The motor mod worked great. Speed through the chicane was improved over the LosiXXXS. Grip on all the corners is actually improved with this R edition over the XXXS. I could corner with little brakes today. I had the original TC5 earlier in the thread. I thought the Losi cornered a little harder than the original TC5 car with the stiff parts. The setup I have on this car is working really well.

Maybe next Sunday I can get Lap times and test some new Experimental Sweep EXP 40 tires. We had a rainshower to prevent a short test today.

My one year old ThunderPower packs are still working well after 100 hard cycles. They are starting to puff up in the heat even though they did not last summer. Time for some new packs. More on the batteries here.
John
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:14 PM   #825
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Track Test 106 air temp, 147F track temp.
SJR 40's vs Sweep EXP 40's
I was given a set of promotional prototype sweep EXP 40 tires to test. The instructions were to find a hot day and use a powerful car. Well today was just the day. It does not get much hotter than 147F track temp in Houston. The 3.5 powered TC5 is certainly powerful. The track had a narrow groove left over from the worlds but the wind had blown some dust on it. Traction was medium-low. I did not treat it with sugar water.

First a run with SJR R40's. These are Sorex R40 tires mounted on Jayco prism wheel. It is a good setup with a stiff wheel and is my normal hot weather tire at Mikes-HobbyShop.com. Best times were a couple of 23.7 with plenty of low 24's. With good traction we run in the low 20's. Next the Sweeps. I had a little more trouble hooking up with them. The braking was slightly weaker. They needed to be driven more gently. I did manage one 23.7 lap but the majorrity were in the mid 24's. The edge goes to Sorex today, but things may change with more grip or slightly lower temps. I will test again. The sweep tires came off the track at 142F which was a degree hotter than the Sorex tires.

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Last edited by John Stranahan; 08-15-2010 at 05:28 PM.
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