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Old 12-13-2007, 02:32 PM   #481
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Thanks John for your advice and I agree about the servo.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:46 PM   #482
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Track Report
48F track temp.
We had our first cool track temperature. Cs32s did not hookup. Takeoff RP30's were perfect. I was quickly down to better than race times last race with the TC body. The TC body seems to be a few tenths at least faster than the longer Saleen Body with the shorter wing. (I duplicated this experiment with the 1/10 pan car previously with a long bodied short winged experiment. It was slower there too).

The homemade diff would not keep the blue Aluminum sleeves captured although they seem to fit. I broke the spool and returned to the Associated spool with pin pillows. My TiR spool is out of commission awaiting plastic drive cups.

The LRP X11 3.5 motor failed. It had about 50 runs on it, all at about 160 F. This is actually pretty good service. The pinion side bearing was OK. The magnet made a very clean separation from the motor shaft. This might be a glued joint. It is probably still under waranttee. I had a spare motor at the track which did not work when installed. I had the spare speed control at home so that ended the session.

We had a race semiplanned. The traction favored the electric car today. It had the fastest laps of 12 Nitros. About a half dozen decided not to race and it was cancelled for lack of traction. My rubber tires were hooked up well.

John

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Old 12-17-2007, 05:00 AM   #483
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Whats the difference performance wise between a spool and a one way for the front end. Is one more durable than the other. Or would I be better off using the kit ball diff. I'm running on a big outdoor asphalt track.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:52 AM   #484
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Dude - he writes about the differences between spool and regular all throughout this thread - do yourself a favor and read the whole thing (I know it's long - it's worth it!!!)

DO IT!

NOW!

LOL
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:57 AM   #485
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T4mania-I suggest starting with the front ball diff and use it to tune the car and get experience with the track. If you find that you take all corners with a wide radius and use no brakes then you can try the oneway and see if lap times improve. If you use some brakes then I would try the locked diff.

In my opinion the locked diff is slightly easier to drive than the ball diff, but is the hardest on parts. Parts will break and parts will wear quickly. Have spare axles outdrives and a spare spool.

The oneway is hardest to drive as any brakes will tend to spin the car out, but it has the best front cornering traction early in the corner. Some oneways like the Losi JRXS model come with a second O-ring to seal out dirt. This would be preffered outdoors. In a crash parts will break like with a locked diff. Have spare axles and outdrives.

More details here back in the thread.

Think of the Thread as a chapter "Cornering at the Limit" in an RC book that is no longer for sale. It deals with most aspects of suspension setup. It is not too long yet.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-27-2007 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 12-27-2007, 05:04 PM   #486
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Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all.

I have had problems with the front hex drives ever since I changed to a locked front diff. So the combination high traction, powerful motor, use of brakes, and a locked diff are responsible. What happens is the wheel moves back and forth on the hex. This eventually breaks the wheel female hex and rounds off the drive hex. I want to make some other observations as I address this problem. The old TC4 axle is #8 x 32 TPi The new axle is 4 mm. The old 8x32 nuts will fit but the new thread is .020 inches smaller in diameter so the 8x32 nut will be loose. The nylon lock on an 8 x 32 nut will be loose as well.

The Associated Aluminum Hexes are a few thousandths smaller in diameter acrross the flats than the Losi Aluminum Hex. The Losi part works better at the wheel but requires a .010 metal shim to be rolled around the axle to fit. I tried this and it worked OK.

The Losi Plastic Hexes worked OK as they are a snug fit in the wheel but are oversized on the axle. This might lead to wheel wobble unless shimmed.

I found some plastic Hexes from Duratrax that fit the axle and are a little wider than the parts above to widen the car to 189mm or so. That should be handy on my track.
The part number is DTXC7551 from the Street force GP, if you want to give them a try. They are a good fit in the wheel hex.

I widened the car with shims behind the inner A-arm pivot blocks. This worked OK but put the dogbone a little too far out on the Aluminum Spool. The drive axle would partially pop out in a crash and chew up the end of the spool and the pin pillow and then pop back in.

I have HPI wheel nuts as well as small 4 mm steel Nylock Nuts From Dubro that should both work with this new spacing.

John
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:27 PM   #487
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5 month Rebuild.

At about this time touring cars are starting to get a little sloppy. Here is one symptom, that I had on the TC5, I would go to full throttle on the bench and sometimes it would go to full speed and other times it sat there making more noise than usual at a slower speed. A vibration limited speed. This tells me something is wrong in the driveline. I removed the heat shrink from the drive axle. It was not staying put as well as I had hoped, so the interior was dirty with grit. It may have been rubbing the uprights just a little. This did not solve the problem. I replaced the front spool with a new Associated part. This will put the bones back on center and reduced vibration. Finally I replaced the rear Aluminum Oudrives with new parts and new pin pillows (blades). This cured the problem. The power sucking vibration was at the rear bones.
I had a 3/4 inch section on a relatively new belt with no teeth. I think this happened in the crash that ended my last race. This was not causing the vibration, but I replaced it as well. I replaced any damaged wheel bearings. I Put about $120 into the well worn car. It should run like new.

Completing a Pass
I might as well talk about this crash. Generally you have completed a pass when the other driver can see your head off to the side (OK imagine a little driver). I had completed a pass onto the straight when I was nailed into the boards. If someone has made this much progress on you on the inside, it is your duty to share the race track. The rule is allow one car width plus and inch even on full size cars. Now if all you have done is brought your front bumper to the back door of the car then you have not completed the pass. You should slow down and try again. If you nail the other car in the rear quarter panel on a turn this is the most unsportsman like behavior that there is, HACK. Now I have to say this that in a club race rarely are guys in full control of the car, so sharing the race track might be difficult for them. Don't get upset. My brain makes a little photograph of the incident so that I can always at least talk about where I got nailed.

I have had no problem with chassis tweak. The chassis and top plate are in great shape.

I have already replaced all the uprights which hold the wheel bearings, as these had gotten sloppy, and I had replaced the drive axles. There is a club race Sunday, but my health is poor at the moment. I don't know yet if I can show.

The pic shows the worn rear outdrives. They have been on the car almost the whole 5 months as the plastic pieces melted on the first race. The blades wore very well and were nice and flat and crisp here on the rear. In spite of this the wear pattern is very complex.

To newcomers to the thread. At this point some repetion is innevitable. Feel free to ask questions. I will put a link to the material if we have discussed it previously on the thread.

John
Attached Thumbnails
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-rear-aluminum-outdrive-001.jpg  

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Old 01-05-2008, 08:11 AM   #488
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:11 AM   #489
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I was asked by private message for a good silicone O-ring. This one by Integy is similar to what I used to use. I have not had to change the O-ring on my TC5 yet. When you are changing the O-ring look for a color change on the shaft. If it has gone from yellow to a little silver then you have damage from scoring and wear on the shaft that has worn off the top titanium nitride hard coat. It may be time for new shafts as well.
If you have a good suggestion on this feel free to add your thoughts.
John
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:10 PM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stranahan View Post
I was asked by private message for a good silicone O-ring. This one by Integy is similar to what I used to use. I have not had to change the O-ring on my TC5 yet. When you are changing the O-ring look for a color change on the shaft. If it has gone from yellow to a little silver then you have damage from scoring and wear on the shaft that has worn off the top titanium nitride hard coat. It may be time for new shafts as well.
If you have a good suggestion on this feel free to add your thoughts.
John
Good info John. I tried the Green Much More o-rings in my shocks recently... but have now changed them back out. After a few meetings I've noticed that the shocks were leaking, and I tried replacing everything, except the o-rings, as I'd only changed them recently.... Came to head a few weeks back when I had a nightmare of a meeting, as my usual setup just did not work, and the car felt crap.
Turned out the shocks had leaked more than usual, and that half the oil was missing.... so ripped everything out, and started again. Now back using the tamiya clear o-rings, and no issues... go figure.
I did like the improved smoothness of rhe Much More 'rings, but I haven't got time to be rebuilding shocks after every run....

HiH
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:19 AM   #491
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Regarding passing, something I noticed with myself when I was new and with others that I helped start racing. . . I would look at the car I was passing - totally inadvertently - and would inevitably steer toward them. I still have the tendency - I can't look at another car. I only know one person who can actively look at another car and still drive his. . .

But I've found it quite often to be someone who accidentally looks at the car he/she is passing - that's often why we get smacked when passing. I actually had a friend who, when I'd pass him, I'd actually say, "don't look at me, I'm passing you. . .don't look DON"T LOOK DON"T LOOK. . .okay, you can look now!"

Quote:
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5 month Rebuild.

At about this time touring cars are starting to get a little sloppy. Here is one symptom, that I had on the TC5, I would go to full throttle on the bench and sometimes it would go to full speed and other times it sat there making more noise than usual at a slower speed. A vibration limited speed. This tells me something is wrong in the driveline. I removed the heat shrink from the drive axle. It was not staying put as well as I had hoped, so the interior was dirty with grit. It may have been rubbing the uprights just a little. This did not solve the problem. I replaced the front spool with a new Associated part. This will put the bones back on center and reduced vibration. Finally I replaced the rear Aluminum Oudrives with new parts and new pin pillows (blades). This cured the problem. The power sucking vibration was at the rear bones.
I had a 3/4 inch section on a relatively new belt with no teeth. I think this happened in the crash that ended my last race. This was not causing the vibration, but I replaced it as well. I replaced any damaged wheel bearings. I Put about $120 into the well worn car. It should run like new.

Completing a Pass
I might as well talk about this crash. Generally you have completed a pass when the other driver can see your head off to the side (OK imagine a little driver). I had completed a pass onto the straight when I was nailed into the boards. If someone has made this much progress on you on the inside, it is your duty to share the race track. The rule is allow one car width plus and inch even on full size cars. Now if all you have done is brought your front bumper to the back door of the car then you have not completed the pass. You should slow down and try again. If you nail the other car in the rear quarter panel on a turn this is the most unsportsman like behavior that there is, HACK. Now I have to say this that in a club race rarely are guys in full control of the car, so sharing the race track might be difficult for them. Don't get upset. My brain makes a little photograph of the incident so that I can always at least talk about where I got nailed.

I have had no problem with chassis tweak. The chassis and top plate are in great shape.

I have already replaced all the uprights which hold the wheel bearings, as these had gotten sloppy, and I had replaced the drive axles. There is a club race Sunday, but my health is poor at the moment. I don't know yet if I can show.

The pic shows the worn rear outdrives. They have been on the car almost the whole 5 months as the plastic pieces melted on the first race. The blades wore very well and were nice and flat and crisp here on the rear. In spite of this the wear pattern is very complex.

To newcomers to the thread. At this point some repetion is innevitable. Feel free to ask questions. I will put a link to the material if we have discussed it previously on the thread.

John
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:55 PM   #492
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Boomer- I am hoping that you just have this backwards. "But I've found it quite often to be someone who accidentally looks at the car he/she is passing - that's often why we get smacked when passing."

I would say don't look at the car that is passing you. Your natural tendency(the person being passed) will be to close the gap, but it is already too late when you notice the pass. This is what caused my crash, A Nitro that normally takes this last turn very wide at full throttle, instead throttles down and tries to squeeze my car out on the inside.

Track Session
Track Temp 65F Bright Sun, what a fine day for a practice.
I had residual troubles in my car from the last motor failure (Rotor shaft slipped out of magnet). It turns out The second LRP motor I tried had internal problems as well. It would go hard then soft but would make it around the track. I took it apart, nothing was visibly wrong. The problem remained. This is an unusuall motor problem for me with brushless.
I put in a Novak 3.5 R geared 1 tooth less. Now that was the cure. So apparently my LRP TC edition Speed cotrol did not brown out. It was a problem in the second motor which ran fine the last time it was in the car but not this time. So the LRP TC edition failure rate is improved to 0. The X11 motor failure rate increased to 3 over a 100 runs. Two of these have been rotor failures, one rotor explosion, one shaft separation from the rotor, and then this mysterious failure.
I have again tried to order a Novak 13 mm Tuner rotor which are now more available.
My car was very fast again. Batteries are holding up extremely well. They don't loose a bunch of zip after a couple of weeks off.

The Duratrax hexes worked fine with the small Dubro Steel 4 mm nuts. The extra width added stability on the sweeper at high speed. Tighten each heat.
John

Shocks
If your shock O-rings leak after a rebuild then it is more likely that the shafts are worn rather than a problem of inferiour O-rings. Get new shafts and new o-rings. I like the blue ones because they have low friction and are soft for a good seal.

I had one of my RC18T shocks finally leak a mL of fluid. It was still working fine. I just topped that one off.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-05-2008 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:16 AM   #493
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yeah - that's what I meant. If you look at another car, your tendency is to hit it. . . - damned fingers, TYPE WHAT I"M THINKING!!!
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:23 AM   #494
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Wow! What a great thread, although my head is spinning! I am new to on-road and I've been trying to get my TC5 setup for sometime. I'm trying to get a good setup for the track here in Las Vegas at the Silverbowl. All of the guys I've seen run out here run nitro and they all use foams. I haven't had a lot of luck with rubber so I just made the switch. I am using Ryan Cavalieri's setup sheet (Reedyrace 2007) with copper springs in the front and silver in the back but after looking at John's setup for foam (blue springs) I'm going to give his setup a try. There are no other electric guys out here to talk too (at least I haven't met anyone yet) so I tried the Prism dbl Pink/Orange in the front and Lilac in the rear and I couldn't believe the difference over rubber (track was freshly prepped), but after two runs the tires looked pretty worn especially the outside edge of the fronts. Is this tire combo a good start? I noticed that everyone who is using foam in this thread are not using multiple compound tires.
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:36 PM   #495
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Jamie-Thanks for the post. Welcome to the thread. I thought I would give a short response, but defer you foam tire questions to others with more Foam tire experience.

Note that going up and down on the spring rate is chaging the roll stiffness of the car. If the car has too much bite in the corner you can increase spring rate (front and back) or add roll bars to make it slide smoother.(One goal here is not to traction roll the car if traction is that high.) If the grip is low then a softer spring and roll bars will be better.

My track will be doing some sugar water prep in the future as they have purchased an expensive sprayer. I will probably try foams again on the TC. Without sugar, I am about .5 seconds faster on rubbber tires.
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