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Old 10-24-2007, 09:36 PM   #361
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I kid you not, we used to do the saran wrap trick in the 80's on RC10's, the original ones with the big gold tub.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:54 PM   #362
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Here is a pic of the TC5 at 44 ounces with body. I want to test three things. First will the car be faster if lighter. With foams I found sometimes a car is faster if you add a little weight when it is too light. This is in the 37 to 39 ounce region (1/10 6 cell). It seems that the foams need a little weight to make good contact with the track. I don't think 44 ounces will be too light for the touring car as it has 4 wheel drive.

I found it helpful with foams to have some negative camber gain with roll. As the car rolls over in the corner the foam wheels will tend to flex and start contacting on the outside edge. We combat this with negative static camber. It is also helpful in my opinion on these foams for the chassis to add a little negative camber with roll. This is accomplished with unequal length suspension arms. Top short, bottom long. To add a little more than is possible with the stock shock towers I made custom towers that allow me to move the inner camber link pivot one hole farther out. This is just an experiment there may be no advantage. There was an advantage on the front of my pan car which has a custom dual A-arm front suspension.

thirdly, I wanted to try these smaller shocks and springs on the touring car to see if they are satisfactory. They may require too much maintenance or maybe not. I'll see. The car can be changed back to big shocks very quickly as those parts are all attached to the original top bearing caps and shock towers. Photo at right is the original shocks.

Now I noticed Sean thought this was a step backwards in time (he drives pan cars for CRC with 20 year old designs). I don't think I have seen a road car with these smaller shocks before other than my own. All the way back to the HPI RS4.

Things that can still be lightened.
Steel to Ti Hinge Pin set. Waiting for a kit.
Steel to Aluminum Dogbone drive Axles, don't like the increased wear from moving that small CVD pin to an Aluminum instead of a Steel cup (TIR models).
Steel to Aluminum Center Shaft is on the way to improve my gear runout.
John
Attached Thumbnails
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-44-ounces-003-resized.jpg   Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks-tc5-44-ounces-original-shock-towers.jpg  

Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-30-2007 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:05 AM   #363
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. I don't think I have seen a road car with these smaller shocks before other than my own. All the way back to the HPI RS4.
John

The original Schumacher SST had optional, smaller bore purple anodized shocks. They were utter cr4p.
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:13 AM   #364
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noted.

These RC18 shocks may be an improvement or maybe not. I know that they are quite a bit better than the Associated VCS micro shocks that preceded them by about 20 years. There are holes in the piston for easy tuning rather than a solid piston that relies on clearance around the edge. Construction is very similar to the big shock. The only problem is the O-ring cap should have been made with threads so it would be more secure. The Losi shocks might be better in this respect. I have about a year of use on a set of the RC18T shocks on a 1/10 road car.
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Old 10-26-2007, 03:57 AM   #365
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The original Schumacher SST had optional, smaller bore purple anodized shocks. They were utter cr4p.
old yokomos too, the tiny red ones.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:44 AM   #366
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From testing at our asphalt track, carpet foam tires will wear much faster than the Nitro TC tires...Carpet front foams are also 28mm, while the foam nitro tc tires are 26mm fronts...
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:09 PM   #367
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Shorter Upper Camber Links
I got more cornering traction. Smoother corner entry. I could now use less brakes on my hairpins. Only a touch to get things started. So why doesn't Associated offer this extra hole. It is probably because the majority of TC5's will be used inside on carpet. On carpet you do things to the car to get rid of excess traction. I am on outdoor asphalt and today the track was dusty and green. I can use every bit of cornering traction possible. During races traction will come up, but I find the negative camber gain is still helpful. You just corner faster still. Those short blue .825 inch Associated tie rods were perfect for this mod.

Small Shocks
The goal of the small shocks was lighter weight (achieved), to be able to use the outer holes on the lower arms front and back without rubbing on the foams (achieved) It only took one pack with four stops to tune things up. Once I had the upper shock positiions where I wanted I had a little bit of twitchiness left. I reduced the shock oil from 35 to 25 and the car drove like a dream. I could drive it hard without little driver errors upseting the car. Are they as good driving as my beveled piston stock shocks. Well on the very hardest bump not quite as good, but elsewhere they are indistinguishable. I may be able to put a tiny bevel on these.

I am able to run the front of the car about 5 holes lower than stock with the new front shock tower and the small GRP tires. It looked really good low and flatter than traditional touring cars. More like race cars. This gives me a little more speed on the long straight.

Jaco Prisms
I was much happier with the large diameter Jaco Prism tires on the car. This gave them a little more forward traction on our outdoor track than with the tiny GRP which were geared two pinion teeth up from the Prisms. Speed on the straight was better. Handling on the infield was delightful. Tomorrow I will have better traction from traffic. I am sold on these. They are also availabe at an introductory price of $10 a pair at the moment at several suppliers. Wear was .5 mm off the diameter for one long run.

LRP X11 Screw Failure
I had noted earlier that my LRP 3.5 came with one screw pre stripped. A second one is stripped now. I will have to send it in for Warantee. These screws are very tiny for their intended purpose of holding all the weight of the can against the bumps.
John

Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-27-2007 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:20 PM   #368
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Small Shocks
The goal of the small shocks was lighter weight (achieved), to be able to use the outer holes on the lower arms front and back without rubbing on the foams (achieved) It only took one pack with four stops to tune things up. Once I had the upper shock positiions where I wanted I had a little bit of twitchiness left. I reduced the shock oil from 35 to 25 and the car drove like a dream. I could drive it hard without little driver errors upseting the car. Are they as good driving as my beveled piston stock shocks. Well on the very hardest bump not quite as good, but elsewhere they are indistinguishable. I may be able to put a tiny bevel on these.

I am able to run the front of the car about 5 holes lower than stock with the new front shock tower and the small GRP tires. It looked really good low and flatter than traditional touring cars. More like race cars. This gives me a little more speed on the long straight.
Hey John,

Might a body reamer be able to bevel the holes as you wish? The fine point may rest in the piston hole a little easier than a drill bit...

Do you suffer from oil leaking out the bottom of the shock? I've found that those shocks don't last very long between re-builds. Any tips for a more secure build?

Cheers,
Warwick.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:27 PM   #369
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Thingsl that can still be lightened.
Steel to Ti Hinge Pin set. Waiting for a kit.
Steel to Aluminum Dogbone drive Axles, don't like the increased wear from moving that small CVD pin to an Aluminum instead of a Steel cup (TIR models).
Steel to Aluminum Center Shaft is on the way to improve my gear runout.
John
You could also try the lightweight bodies from Protoform. I imagine that you don't crash very much

W.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:31 PM   #370
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Warwick
The angle of the drill bit tip is a better angle for the bevel than the reamer. The only problem is that the hole is close to the E clip that holds it on the shaft. It would require taking that little sucker off to do the mod. It's best to have some spares when you do this.

I have noticed that these shocks will leak out of the bottom after a while. The problem is the shaft is not hardcoated. It tends to score from grit as would the bigger shocks if they were not hardcoated. This then causes a poor seal on the O-rings. A rebuild kit with new shafts is cheap, but it would be better when a company starts offereing hard coated (Titanium Nitride Coated) shafts for the RC18s. The Losi shocks are an option except their ballstud is .003 bigger than the Associated RC18T. You would be best served to replace the ballstuds and shocks.
You don't save a whole lot of weight going to the smaller shocks. I was surprised. But an ounce is an ounce.

I crash enough when the track is slick like today to rule out the lightweight bodies. When there is some grip it is not a problem. I usually don't crash in a race.
John
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:23 PM   #371
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Warwick
The angle of the drill bit tip is a better angle for the bevel than the reamer. The only problem is that the hole is close to the E clip that holds it on the shaft. It would require taking that little sucker off to do the mod. It's best to have some spares when you do this.
I just checked out my little shocks. There is a bit of clearance if you spin the shaft so that the piston holes line up with the open part of the clip. What size drill bit are you using? Maybe the shaft gets in the way too

W.
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:29 PM   #372
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On this piston the drill bit would just have to be .010 to .015 over the size of the hole. I would try for a tiny bevel. I did bevel a set for my other road car in the back and I did not notice much change.
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:17 PM   #373
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Default tips..

Hi Guys..

I'm just wondering what parts from other companies fit onto the TC5.

I've Heard : Yokomo Front Belt, Tamiya diff balls,rings.

and pros of them..
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:08 AM   #374
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Default Bearing caps

Was it just me or did others have this problem? My bearing caps are not fitting properly. The flat where they connect to the shock towers is actually machined at a slight angle, causing misalignment when I try to mount them to the bulkheads (not machined perpendicular to the bulkhead mounting holes). I triple-checked that I have installed everything properly and it appears that I have. They are out of perpendicularity by about .060"!

I called Associated Friday and got an answering machine with no returned call yet. I hope they're OK with the fire so close to their new facility in Lake Forest
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Old 10-27-2007, 11:07 AM   #375
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Gordie 88- A couple items are available from TIR , front spool- better traction out of corners and more stability, Aluminum Drive Axles-better acceleration but more wear, Titanium Screw Set-lighter, Aluminum Center Shaft-lighter and may run a truer spur.

Associated has some hopups now, Aluminum oudrive/diffhalves-better durability for the back, but not as light, front spool -I don't particularly like spools with pin pillows there is constant maintenance needed to replace pin pillows, Increased torsional flex top plate and chassis-for outdoor asphalt. Shorter tierods if your run the outer camber link hole.

I had good luck tensioning my stock belt when I changed to the medium cam. I don't think you will profit from another belt if you can tension it properly.

check the thread for photos of most of these items.
John

Manic RC- I have two sets of those caps with no problems. There are two types A and B one for the left and a different one for the right. Install them with the milled recess for the cams inwards. The vertical shock tower face will go forward on the front of the car, rearward on the rear of the car. It is hard to tell from your description what the problem is unless they got bent in a crash. I suspect you have them facing the wrong way as the two flats on one side (bulkhead) are different heights.
john

Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-01-2007 at 08:36 AM.
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