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Old 01-01-2002, 04:04 AM   #31
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Update:
Setup so far I like is the front having the longest/straightest links for the front. This although has lesser initial turn in I get much more steering through mid/out of the turn.

And the rear is the shortest, laid down links.

Problem is, have been playing alone with this setup. It works great when the track is clear and clean. This morning I played with gas cars. The first pack was ok, there was mild oversteer, and corrected with some softer springs in the rear.

But when the track started to get oily the car oversteers very badly off power. I solved it slightly by raising the front shock towers. This solved a bit of the problems.

My theory is: Rear roll centre is set to super low. It works on a clean track because it gives excellent traction on the begining of the turn, and then the car will rotate due to (in theory) the loss of traction. But the traction is holding up so the oversteer is very mild. I love this setup especially for taking the double hairpin in jurong.

But it seems when the track gets oily the rear end just loses traction too fast, hence the super oversteer. Could possibly solve this with softer springs/more laid down rear. But I guess it would be better to use a slightly higher roll centre to compensate. I guess I will need to try at some later date. Indeed sliding around is slow *sigh* much watch less Initial D.

Regards.
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Old 01-01-2002, 05:18 AM   #32
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ahahha i also love inital D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHO


yep the higher roll centre goves more traction but well with mod motors i use lower ROLL centre
dunno why but it works better ....for me

and u r rite about bumpy and low traction tracks ... i use higher roll centre ... if not its hard has heck to control

but i can also say that higher roll centre gives more traction... so thats why its easier to control
BUT strangely enough with mod motor and a super fast flowing track i prefer lower roll centre i can throw the rear ends around ... like its drifting but its not ... like its loosing trction but its still controlable and very fast
the ugly side is that if theres a bit of oil i m doom or if i use a bit of brakes...i will crash

lower roll centre on my car will also give more neg camber gain when the suspension is compressed so ......its more stable in the turns compared to higher roll centre....
but higher roll centre make me feel like i have more GRIP ....
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Old 01-01-2002, 05:24 AM   #33
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hehe a tip for u alvin ... on setups >about roll bars
set the car so it rolls but it has tones of grip .... with a slight overstear with no droop limitations then add the roll bars ..
try it out ... and then only addjust the droop to suit ur driving style ...
i found it easier to find the sweet spot using this order
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Old 01-01-2002, 05:30 AM   #34
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btw how much is the o4 roll bars front & rear in s'pore?
here its like 40 sing !
friend complaining ....... lol
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Old 01-01-2002, 05:53 AM   #35
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Yo man!
With the high roll centre, I can feel the car's turning in ability is cut *alittle*, but the traction through the turn is very consistent. Previously the lower roll centre (front mid roll centre on the 04 - the low front roll centre actually bottoms out my 04) gives me super excellent turn in, through/out of the corner the car has much less grip, have to fight a little with the car to go through.

Today my setting different a bit, 80WT shock oil as GKC suggests in his setup. IMO, the car feels very boring to drive.... and I think it is hard to drive too. The 50wt I tried before this, TONS of roll, can hear the body shell scratching the sides. The 50wt seems much easier to drive, but the track condition previously was very good. Plus no one is timing me so I can't really say which is faster. Now I'm scratching my head about this, dunno what to do about it.

YIPEE another Initial D fan! I wonder if our friends over the globe know about this EXCELLENT jap show, my favourite car is the Lancer Evolution 3 with the turbo ALS! Wish got some protofoam body shell in that scheme, confirm see me using that body. OTOH I was told my EVO 6 shell is limiting my car's performance. I should try ah, to practise with EVO 6, when a serious race comes I then swap over to my evo-6-lookalike-stratus, and see if performance increases.

I think why you find the low roll centre easier to control a mod motor is because the grip does not suddenly dissapear - it is a gradual diminishing factor. Unlike a high roll centre which has a certain amount of grip through out the turn, if a car with F/R high roll centre suddenly loses grip, it is a very drastic change - confirm car will spin to a stop.

About the camber change thing, I have read throug the heremanss site's stuff many many times but I still do not understand the camber change thing.... but I get the idea about the grip differences between the higher and lower roll centres, I hope that is sufficient. For camber wise as long as my tires wear pretty even can liao...

Droop/downstop, damn this is one setting I get 0 chance to play with - because I got no droop gauge ahhhh..... and the purple speedmind ones around the LHS suck - colourwise. And the hudy ones are not very affordable.... ack. Could not find any AE droop gauges.

Hmm roll bars I will get them soon - I need to settle my charger (I AM CHARGERLESS!!!) and batteries for our singapore tamiya race season. Hope not to dnq.

Over to you!
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Old 01-01-2002, 06:17 AM   #36
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Oh btw, what do you think about the yellow anti roll bars which come stock on the TA04r?! The front ARB seems to work, but the rear one doesn't lift the other suspension arm even with the shocks off! Does the harder ARBs work? I think I want to go to a softer shock oil and add ARBs, the car is really unresponsive with 80wt oil.
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Old 01-01-2002, 06:26 AM   #37
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What surface are you running the 80wt on, carpet? I found the 04 or 414M is good with 60-70wt up front and 40-50wt in the rear for asphalt, but possibly run a 70wt front and 60-70wt rear for carpet.
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Old 01-01-2002, 06:32 AM   #38
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Uh uh, I was running on an asphalt parking lot! rcracer, what is the difference between running say 60wt front/rear compared to 60front 40 rear? I have tried 40 rear 50 front, versus 40/40 and 50/50, I can't tell the difference.....
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Old 01-01-2002, 07:13 PM   #39
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charger ... i am using the LRP micro .... its cheap and does the job well ..... so ... heh .... i riuned my only 3000 pack a long time back so not i vowed never to to go for the 3000 anymore ...
hehe NIi-Cads works best for me in stock.

i think its the other way round .... for my car ...
with high rollcentre .. or infinete .. roll center .. parereall a-arms to the camber links the grip does not disapear suddenly but it gradual ...
but vice versa ... but its fun for mod cause its faster throwing the rear end slightly is the only way u can go fast and still maintain controlability at a good level ... cause without throwing the rear end around .. u would never turn ... at that speed ..(understear)
or u might not have enuff turning ....so a slight throw at the back is best


80W???
no way .... look at all the sponsored drivers cars .... look at their setup ... its quite soft but they have roll bars to control the roll
..i got this from examples from corally cars, TC4 international, and a few others setup sheets



hehe i personally i have gone to 60 W witha single hole on my car but i never liked it ... (hoping car) so i changed back to 40W but 40 + 3 holes was too soft so went up to 50W with 3 holes and its just nice ... but still quite soft compared to most cars ....
to know if ur car is setup with the right damping ... i used this very crude method

placing it up with two wheels on its side (90 degrees) then push it lightly so it lands on all 4 wheels
it should not HOP but should drop down compress a little iwthout botoming out then extend ... quickly and smoothly without hoping ......
it make a 'thud' sound and no other sounds ... just drop and sattles nicely

any question just ask
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Old 01-02-2002, 10:31 AM   #40
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Quote:
charger ... i am using the LRP micro .... its cheap and does the job well ..... so ... heh .... i riuned my only 3000 pack a long time back so not i vowed never to to go for the 3000 anymore ...
Hmm my GP 3k is holding up well, it's my sanyo 3k which crapped out on me. Maybe it's just my luck.

Quote:
i think its the other way round .... for my car ... with high rollcentre .. or infinete .. roll center .. parereall a-arms to the camber links the grip does not disapear suddenly but it gradual ...
Maybe it's just me. Mine performs exactly the OTHER way around! LOL.
Quote:
look at all the sponsored drivers cars .... look at their setup ...
Huh I went to look at the 04 pro cars, and indeed, my setup is TOTALLY waaaay out from theirs! I notice like in high grip condition (good traction or carpet) they have high front/rear roll centre.

If it's like wet or damp condition, they set their roll centre fron/rear to lower. Maybe because of the track also, but there seems to be a pattern.

But basically it shows my ideas are totally out of whack - i.e. Front High, Rear Low.

I wanted to test my previous setup (50wt oil) today, but wah lau run the car halfway, and it started making clicking sounds. Not spur strip, the rear belt split in 2! CRAP. And to think today I brought my setup kit down.

Say can we discuss more about droop setting?
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Old 01-02-2002, 09:13 PM   #41
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hehe sure i was about to tell u about my new discoveries after playing with my friends 04 pro
we played 4 batt packs with his car yesterday and i i sort of started to fall in love with tamiya 04 -( i m saving money for better equiptment and now i feel like gettin a 04 - save me someone LOL )

ok heres the latest setup .... and i found that the car was superb ...if u yank the stearing hard u will see that the car turns IN the middle (looks like thers something in the middle of the car which lifts it up and place it nicely in the other direction ....)
but tires never show sign of wear from a drift .... it looked like it did not wear at all and the car felt glued ....
some cars even if it felt glued there will be stiull permature war on the tires not because of anything but cause thers DRAG on it caused by the slight but fast drift ( slows u down )

( we used new standard tamiya slicks just to see the see the wear patern to know is its drifting or is it stuck nicely to the road )

the setup?
Front
50W trinity oil
blue roll bar ( make sure its secured nicely ... very important)
higest shock mount
yelow spring(from the 3 springs set)
longest camber link
inner hole for lower A arm mount ( use outer if it restricts ride height )
we used inner cause of bumpy track
droop screws not used ( not restricted cause roll bar will take care of the extra droop naturally )
-1 camber
ride height 7 mm

rear
50w trinity oil
blue roll bar
lowest shock mount
blue spring(from the 3 spring set)
longest camber link
outer hole for shock mount on A arm
droop set to NONE ...which means the arms will not drop down if u lift up the car
lower hole for rear hub
-1 camber

the rear droop should be addjusted untill u get a nice balanced feel while u turn add more droop ( let it travel down more ) if ur rear end is too lose and restrict droop( dun let it travel down )
if u want to make it slightly more responsive.

look at the car while it takes a preety sharp turn look for the balance see if the front or rear end moves first try to make them move together it will look like theres something in the centre which lift the car up and move it

also do try the front and rear droop without any restriction ( it can travel down all it likes and up all it likes ) and with total restriction ( if u lift the car up it will not droop at all the ride height is the max travel)

and then try front no droop rear max droop and vice versa ....
plz tell me the results ... here hehe

want to know ... if what i felt is right its kinda confusing.....for me
anyway so far the car is now set to the settings above ... hehe my friend can control it BEAUTIFULLY and i find it sweet but it gets boring after 1-2 battry packs .... too easy - stress free - sleepy- kickless setup ... eheh thats me .... but my friend kinda enjoy it ...
easy to handle and still interesting to control he says
give it a try ... as ur next setup .....

and try not to keep swaying form setup to setup ...
get one thet u like ... then use it and addjust the minor things like droop - camber etc etc to suit the ever changing conditions at the track..

but looking for the setup that u like ,... is something harder than it sounds - i know ..... lol tried countless setups on the 04 b4 finding one that suits my friend
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Old 01-02-2002, 09:28 PM   #42
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OPTS i forgot... we changed the front end camber to -1.5 later off ... and it felt better .....
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Old 01-02-2002, 10:11 PM   #43
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i think i messed up on the droop part ........
the way i said it was wrong.........i clean forgoten !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry ...

it should be ... more droop = less downtravel / 4mm droop = less downtravel compared to 2 mm droop ..... but - 2mm droop = more downtravel

so .... when i said more droop in my earlier post it mean more down travel ...

but actually more droop = less downtravel ... just that its said the opposite way in the post so whenever u read more downtravel more droop in the post ... its actually SHOULD HAV BEEN SAID that more downtravel less droop ....

argh sounds confusing ...
ok i will change the post ...
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Old 01-13-2002, 01:18 AM   #44
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Here are my two setups. My favourite one first:

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Old 01-13-2002, 01:19 AM   #45
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Here's another one. Not very tail happy at all.

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