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Old 07-26-2007, 03:59 PM   #1
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Default A thought on car weights

I understand that they want to level the playing field, but here is a quick question. If Joe schmo from kokomo has the ability to lighten his car and make it faster, why should he have to weigh it down? Lets be honest, all of these cars are pretty much made the same, so if someone who is smart enough and has the ability to get the car as light as possible to win, why should he be forced to "brick it down"? Granted Li-po will give people the "advantage", but hasnt it been proven that cars that are a few ounces heavier can be equally successful or guys who run lighter cars can get that ass beat just like anyone else?
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:28 PM   #2
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cost and common sence.

if its good enough for F1, then its good enough for RC cars
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by GymBeam View Post
cost and common sence.

if its good enough for F1, then its good enough for RC cars
That is about as clear as a "yogi'ism" like "it aint over till its over" or "they give you money, which is just as good as cash". Like......what?>
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:21 PM   #4
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My guess would be to try to keep the playing field level. The same reason you can't race a mod motor in the stock class, or a 1/12 scale in TC. Some sort of standard has to be there, so weight is probably one of the better thing to regulate. Just my one and a half cents.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:29 PM   #5
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Ok so with that type of thinking an even smarter guy running stock would slip in a 19turn armature when no one is looking, or make his car wider, or run a extra cell or run lower ride height or use reverse on the track............ect ect ect

Look rules are intended to create some sort of stucture and level playing field. There is enough "legal" tuning a guy can do to go faster. The fast guys go fast within the rules..

A reduction in weight results in an increase in Horsepower,top speed and acceleration without the weight limitation there would be some very fragile cars used on the track! Would it be fair if you got your ass handed to you because your buddy was running a car 1/2lb lighter then yours? When before the weight reduction you where about the same speed?


"RACING without rules is just BASHING!"
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:40 PM   #6
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Ok so with that type of thinking an even smarter guy running stock would slip in a 19turn armature when no one is looking, or make his car wider, or run a extra cell or run lower ride height or use reverse on the track............ect ect ect

Look rules are intended to create some sort of stucture and level playing field. There is enough "legal" tuning a guy can do to go faster. The fast guys go fast within the rules..

A reduction in weight results in an increase in Horsepower,top speed and acceleration without the weight limitation there would be some very fragile cars used on the track! Would it be fair if you got your ass handed to you because your buddy was running a car 1/2lb lighter then yours? When before the weight reduction you where about the same speed?



"RACING without rules is just BASHING!"
I appreciate people answering the thread, but did anyone read like the first couple of lines and the last two sentences that started this thread? I realize the rules are there for a reason, but if someone has the ingenuity to run the same amount of cells, type of tires yada yada and has the ability to make his car 8 ounces lighter, then he deserves to win if he knows how to drive something that light and got it that light by using equipment thats available to the general market. I know a reduction in weight enables the car to be faster duh, but a light car that is fragile is EQUALLY fragile when it has weights. Weights make people stronger and less brittle, not cars. Had you said for stability, I'll buy that. But like my last sentence says, I have seen dudes that drove a heavy car, not pig heavy, but heavier than other guys in their heat, and with the right gearing AND good driving skills, win like it was nobodys business.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:51 PM   #7
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why not race 8 scale with 10 scale?
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:02 PM   #8
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The weight of the car makes a huge difference to the lap times if you are a good driver. The fact is that outside a Worlds A Final, we are mostly bad drivers, so our inability to drive right on the edge means the weight differences are not shown up. Secondly, the weight limit is there to make cars affordable. If it wasn't there, cars would be made as light as possible. We get cars that are strong and cheap; without a weight limit they would be light and strong, and very expensive.

Rather than compare with F1, compare with road cars. Their weights are hugely different, but on the odd occasion that people try to drive fast against each other, the faster driver will always do better irrespective of the weight of the car. That doesn't mean the weight of the car is irrelevant, it means the driving standards are so low the weight difference isn't noticeable.

The weight limit is there for two reasons - to make sure that we can buy an affordable car, and to keep the playing field level for the Worlds Top Ten. Removing the weight limit would send the cost of cars and parts to very high levels.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:04 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by GymBeam View Post
why not race 8 scale with 10 scale?
Boy oh boy, talk about a smart guy. As a SAID, all things being equal, if a guy can manage to make his car lighter running in the same class....now you are talking about different scales where obviously the cars are not meant to run together. Man, people are so lucky the digital world seperates us all. Look at the car attached here...this thing has more weights than Gold's Gym.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:07 PM   #10
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The weight of the car makes a huge difference to the lap times if you are a good driver. The fact is that outside a Worlds A Final, we are mostly bad drivers, so our inability to drive right on the edge means the weight differences are not shown up. Secondly, the weight limit is there to make cars affordable. If it wasn't there, cars would be made as light as possible. We get cars that are strong and cheap; without a weight limit they would be light and strong, and very expensive.

Rather than compare with F1, compare with road cars. Their weights are hugely different, but on the odd occasion that people try to drive fast against each other, the faster driver will always do better irrespective of the weight of the car. That doesn't mean the weight of the car is irrelevant, it means the driving standards are so low the weight difference isn't noticeable.

The weight limit is there for two reasons - to make sure that we can buy an affordable car, and to keep the playing field level for the Worlds Top Ten. Removing the weight limit would send the cost of cars and parts to very high levels.
Thank you. Thats LOGICAL! The type of answer that makes sense...as opposed to people using stuff I said in their responses, you gave legitamite points as to why. I still hate having to weigh down my car, but it does make sense.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:52 PM   #11
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In full scale cars, its to keep costs level and make the playing field even.

Ie - you can afford to make everything on your car carbon fiber, and I cant. Since our motors are the same, you win, assuming equal driving skill, because lighter cars are faster, better handling, and easier on tires.

So you win because you have more money than me.

And when classes dont have rules, you end up with like 3 drivers/teams being competitive and spending ridiculous cash (re: late 80's/early 90's f1).

In RC it seems pretty similar...letting you run a few ounces lighter than everyone elseis the same as letting me run a 19t motor in a stock 27t category...it just doesnt make sense.

The only reason I could see a weight reduction in the rules is if EVERYBODY is having to add weight to their car to make weight.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Boy oh boy, talk about a smart guy. As a SAID, all things being equal, if a guy can manage to make his car lighter running in the same class....now you are talking about different scales where obviously the cars are not meant to run together. Man, people are so lucky the digital world seperates us all. Look at the car attached here...this thing has more weights than Gold's Gym.
Now on the other hand if that was center mounted he really wouldn't per say need it. He has to have it to balance the cars reaction in the turns.
I have had this debate at the track. I hate the fact when you buy a kit thats 3 ounces light box stock and you have to add weights to it. And with the Lipos getting more popular I wonder how light they will end up going. It will help tire wear and overall car wear, theres lots of pluses. Personally I say lighten it up.

One guy gets there buy power packs the other buy less weight. Either way its just trying to go faster.

Now in major event the weights are really the only thing even close to keeping the field level.
Club racing I just don't see the concern. We don't all want to be ready for the big show.
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:27 AM   #13
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I can always count on UN4RACING to back me up. You echo my point. When I hear these guys say "when one can afford and someone else cant", that to me is kind of absurd. Costs, set-ups and skills makes winners. And like anything else, if you cant compete one way monetarily, you circumvent the shortcoming by working on your set-ups and your skills. People are acting as if the cars are 20 pounds and someone shows up with a car weighing 1600 grams..that would be a unfair advantage.
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:57 AM   #14
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It's possible to make something absurdly light and strong, but there's almost definitely a large cost associated with it. One example that comes to mind is competition bike frames. Look how much the price goes up to reduce weight. The same things can happen with cars. They're already designed to be as light as possible without compromising too much strength, and going any further would require things like titanium screws, and probably weaker cars. Weight limits aren't just good for keeping things fair, they're good for keeping prices, designs and durability reasonable. Look at the idiocy that goes on with light weight lexan bodies. Guys lose races all the time because those stupid things tuck so easily, all in the name of shedding a tiny bit of weight. In other words, be careful what you wish for.

I realize the impetus for this thread is the fact that LiPo batteries require half a pound of lead to be "legal" weight, and it seems silly to add it. I agree, but keeping cars at weight has been a reasonable compromise to get LiPo accepted in club racing. Can you imagine the backlash against LiPo if you weren't willing to make that concession? We need to take baby steps to introduce new things, this hobby is generally resistant to change. Weight rules will inevitably change, but make no mistake, when they do, it will be a definitive death for NiMH, so that rule change won't be made lightly, or probably anytime soon.

In the meantime, if your club is relaxed about experimentation, and you're using LiPo, this could be a good time to experiment with reducing weight, and seeing how it works for you. Not all cars work well when they're too light, keep in mind they're designed to operate when they're heavier. It would be interesting to what kind of effect a lighter car has on tire wear, top speed, punch out of turns, corner speed, etc. The Type-R in particular seems like a great car to run light with. :-)
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:01 AM   #15
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I know way back in the dark ages of Dirt Oval racing - guys took the weight thing to such an extreme it was rediculous...

Did you ever see a GOLD SWISS CHEESE RC10 tub chassis?

These things were so lightened up, drilled full of holes...light weight screws...pieces shaved, milled etc. it was crazy. (I wish I still had pictures)

I remember (being involved with NORRCA) some of the debates on the weight rules - and the basic concensus was to keep the weight rule at a level that a car would weigh with 'average' equipment NOT the Top of the Line, "ULTRA PERFORMANCE" equipment mainly that was in hopes to keep the "PERCEPTION" that you HAD to have these super light weight parts to be competitive.
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