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Old 07-27-2007, 08:29 PM   #46
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Even we replace titanium or alluminium things on our actual cars, we just can put them lighter for around 20 to 50 g but need to spend a lot of money for tiny difference so I totally not recommend, If you want a lighter chassis then you still put it lighter superficially more, let's purchase the plastic tub ones: cyclone s, ta05 or yok CGM something like these.
But I think you need change their tubs frequently after races.
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post

I realize the impetus for this thread is the fact that LiPo batteries require half a pound of lead to be "legal" weight, and it seems silly to add it. I agree, but keeping cars at weight has been a reasonable compromise to get LiPo accepted in club racing. Can you imagine the backlash against LiPo if you weren't willing to make that concession? We need to take baby steps to introduce new things, this hobby is generally resistant to change. Weight rules will inevitably change, but make no mistake, when they do, it will be a definitive death for NiMH, so that rule change won't be made lightly, or probably anytime soon.
The interesting thing about this statement is......Sub-c will be illegal to run against lipo.
Lipo can be mixed with sub-c.
Sub-c can not be mixed with Lipo. To kill sub-c the weight will have to be lowered.
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:55 AM   #48
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When NiMH is outlawed, only outlaws will self-discharge.
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:37 AM   #49
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I just caught wind of a fallacy of the converse...some people say lighter cars give one an advantage, while others say it makes the car less table. In another breath, some people say adding weight stabilizes a car while others say that it makes a car slower. Do you see how shit gets confusing?!?
See what Francis is saying below? Complaining that you have to add weight is missing the point. When you have the choice as to where to put the weight, you have a huge advantage, because it is put where it has the best affect on handling. Simply bolting weight into a car to make a limit is not what's needed...

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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
The current weight rule is reasonable and allows you to move weight around which imo is a lot more technical than just removing weight.

Like Joel Legace aleady pointed out, "racing with out rules is just bashing".
...what's needed is to put the weight where you want it to be to make the car faster. Someone with a 1500g car is at a disadvantage to someone with a 1400g car who can place the other 100g to improve handling. That's why the F1, Indy, WRC, etc. teams constantly reduce weight - so they can put the ballast where they need it to tune the car.

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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Maybe I'm over simplifying it, but aren't 5 cell cars just as fast as 6 cell cars, based only on the weight differential? How much does a single cell weigh? It sounds like a very noticeable difference. I imagine a pro with a LiPo and no weight would massively spank a pro with 6 cell NiMH.

It's pretty clear that weight rules are a GOOD thing. LiPo will have its day, there's no reason to take the back roads to get there.
It's not a simple as that in the case of TCs. 5-cell cars are faster because their power doesn't overwhelm the motor and the chassis. It's just like MotoGP - engines reduced from 1000cc to 800cc (I think) but they are already faster over a lap than last year with the bigger engines. (Note - 6-cell brushless at the Thai International - the top drivers had tires come off the rims down the straight!! 5-cell is the way to go!) LiPo only works OK with 19T and Stock - in Mod it is a car-destroyer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I realize the impetus for this thread is the fact that LiPo batteries require half a pound of lead to be "legal" weight, and it seems silly to add it. I agree, but keeping cars at weight has been a reasonable compromise to get LiPo accepted in club racing. Can you imagine the backlash against LiPo if you weren't willing to make that concession? We need to take baby steps to introduce new things, this hobby is generally resistant to change. Weight rules will inevitably change, but make no mistake, when they do, it will be a definitive death for NiMH, so that rule change won't be made lightly, or probably anytime soon.

In the meantime, if your club is relaxed about experimentation, and you're using LiPo, this could be a good time to experiment with reducing weight, and seeing how it works for you. Not all cars work well when they're too light, keep in mind they're designed to operate when they're heavier. It would be interesting to what kind of effect a lighter car has on tire wear, top speed, punch out of turns, corner speed, etc. The Type-R in particular seems like a great car to run light with. :-)
I don't understand why it isn't possible to create a separate class NOW with a weight limit of (say) 1400g for TC. Since the easiest way to run that class is LiPo, it opens it up. We always do this - introduce new technology and then argue for years about equivalency, and when the rules will change for a single class to allow the new technology. Races are often run with one heat for a class, so why not introduce rules for classes now for...

BL Stock 10.5 - 1400g
BR Stock 19T - 1400g

By doing this we open it all up to anyone who wants to race, and if one class has no entrants we don't run it. The number of people who prattle on here about "let the market decide" don't seem to realise that we haven't created a market for people to decide about!!! The market can only decide on LiPo and BL if it has something to compare against BR and NiMh.

Sorry Syndrome, but it is useless baby-ing this thing along, and waiting for the inertia-ridden National Associations to be bullied into a change (which they often get wrong, like the EFRA 5-cell 1350g weight limit that has cost people so much to reach) for the one class we have. Get the proposals in for a new class (suggested above) and then the market (you and me) can decide what to do. As it stands, all we can do is whinge on here, and we are not seeing anything that indicates where the market wants to go.

National Association Rules are used by Clubs, but unless NAs are alive to what is going on, and create classes to allow new technology, we won't know what is wanted, and what isn't. If a class exists, Clubs will use it, and manufacturers will make for it. By the time the NAs get their asses in gear, something else new will be along, we'll have missed it, and this c**p starts all over again. Just think how much more we would know if we had a separate 10.5 BL class last year for people to race in, and not all the hassle of trying to decide when to change the 19T rules.

If the BL class had been a huge hit, we simply don't have any entrants for the 19T class, and the transfer is complete! This year we create another class for BL/LiPo, and see what happens. Since all these classes need the same car, and the same heat format in the same meetings, it's easy to do. But will the NAs doing anything proactive...??? Do chocolate coffee pots hold coffee...???

"Build it, and they will come" - I think someone said in a well-known film!
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