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Old 07-27-2007, 09:12 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Americans are fond of creating new verbs. "Dremeling" isn't a real word. It's just a word that's used to describe the process of using a Dremel tool to work on something, sometimes an R/C car. If you used a Dremel to drill a bunch of holes, you'd be "dremeling" your car. It's similar to how Google is used as a verb. "I'm not sure, google it," for example.
what you are trying to say is that "dremeling" is a "snigglet"
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:14 AM   #32
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Maybe I'm over simplifying it, but aren't 5 cell cars just as fast as 6 cell cars, based only on the weight differential? How much does a single cell weigh? It sounds like a very noticeable difference. I imagine a pro with a LiPo and no weight would massively spank a pro with 6 cell NiMH.

It's pretty clear that weight rules are a GOOD thing. LiPo will have its day, there's no reason to take the back roads to get there.
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:26 AM   #33
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I don't think it's a question of whether people can afford it. The question is why would they want to spend more? As it is you just buy some cheap weights if you have to. If people could lighten their cars then everyone would do it because it's very competitive. So then everyone is spending more on titanium or replacing broken parts that they lightened. Weight rules are fair and keep costs down. There is no good reason to eliminate them and force people to spend more to be competitive.
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:53 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Americans are fond of creating new verbs. "Dremeling" isn't a real word. It's just a word that's used to describe the process of using a Dremel tool to work on something, sometimes an R/C car. If you used a Dremel to drill a bunch of holes, you'd be "dremeling" your car. It's similar to how Google is used as a verb. "I'm not sure, google it," for example.
Thanks for your fasty reply, Syndrome, I want also to say anymore to all. If I use lipos, of course i should make a balance with some lead If there are weight limit in the regs, but to lightweighting in the chassis with expensive parts, I don't recommend others to do it due the difference is pity and the regs' weight limit.
Anyway i always do that, because in my hometown race is no weight limit in regs, to make more attraction for the racers to have more freedom to race, because many the local hobbyshops there is closing due the lack of bussiness, some of us only way to continue enjoying the race must taking some risks, have buying stuffs on the online shop or travelling in somewhere to purchase item, is so troublesome and risky.
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:59 AM   #35
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Now hear this...I KNOW THEY HAVE RULES TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD, I SAID THAT IN THE VERY FIRST POST!

How much shaving can one do that will make a noticeable difference in the upper levels?
Not much before it would prove to be an advantage. I assume you're talking about racing at a world/national event with the guys that made the show. These drivers are all at the top of their games, and really any driver could take any chassis at that level, that meets the guidelines, and do well. Look at the qualifying times of the top ten drivers and you will notice that there is not much separation at all.

Since everyone racing at the upper levels are racing at races that don't allow Lipo's, the lighter power source, why should they change the weight rules for a technology that is not yet allowed? Why worry about it until it's legal? I have seen some of the best racers in the world graze boards, and am sure they are glad that the weight rule is in place, causing the Mfgs. to continue to make cars with beefier parts. I am sure at mod speeds that the parts would have broken if they were designed with the lighter weight rules in place. It's not a matter of money at that level, rather, making sure that when your top drivers are at full tilt driving the cars right on edge, there is that built in margin for error, if needed. It would mean either having a title, or being on the sideline.

While these top drivers do race local club level events, the equipment they race at world/national level events can't be compared directly with the gear that the local clubs/track could/does allow. So by saying that locally you're going to lower the weight min rule, it would be like comparing apples and oranges to the rules that are already established and set in place for national events.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:26 AM   #36
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My own choice of popular chassis with "lightweight capacity"(only opinion without any evidences):

Most capable be lighter:TRF 415(MRE,MSXX), ta05(Ms), HB cyclone, Yokomo BD.

Medium capable: tf5 stallion, HPI Pro4, TB EVO5, AE TC5, Yokomo LCG

Low capable: Schu MI3, Xray t2, LOSI type R, Corally RDX, Alex Stinger, AE TC4

Conclusion: Japan chassis are more capable be lighter than USA/EU, due they have more option parts to choose
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:06 AM   #37
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So which is it damn it, lightened cars are more brittle or more durable? Are you people reading one anothers posts or just answering with the first thing that pops into your heads?Like I said, if a guy has a car, be it an expensive light one or not so expensive "heavier" one (other than XRAY, they all costs about the same), if all other factors other than batteries, a guy can shave some ounces, why should he have to weigh down his car? Not about rules, not about leveling. God, its like you people skip past the wording to state the obvious. Stop trying to treat a bullet wound with a band aid and get to the facts. Its obvious a car that is lighter will travel faster but, who goes to a race and doent watch the guys in pratice? If you look around the pits, you can see what your comp is driving and with a minor gear switch, your car performs much different than it did previously. I have seen guys with graphite TC4's with 2400 nicads win outright against cars that were belted and lighter...because the tc4 driver could DRIVE. For the last time, I am not saying everyone have cars that weight 4 pounds and some jerk off show up with a car tipping the scales at 30 ounces, now that would be unfair no matter how one drove. But, with so many variables and with the power of todays motors, are a few grams really going to make a difference?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
So which is it damn it, lightened cars are more brittle or more durable? Are you people reading one anothers posts or just answering with the first thing that pops into your heads?Like I said, if a guy has a car, be it an expensive light one or not so expensive "heavier" one (other than XRAY, they all costs about the same), if all other factors other than batteries, a guy can shave some ounces, why should he have to weigh down his car? Not about rules, not about leveling. God, its like you people skip past the wording to state the obvious. Stop trying to treat a bullet wound with a band aid and get to the facts. Its obvious a car that is lighter will travel faster but, who goes to a race and doent watch the guys in pratice? If you look around the pits, you can see what your comp is driving and with a minor gear switch, your car performs much different than it did previously. I have seen guys with graphite TC4's with 2400 nicads win outright against cars that were belted and lighter...because the tc4 driver could DRIVE. For the last time, I am not saying everyone have cars that weight 4 pounds and some jerk off show up with a car tipping the scales at 30 ounces, now that would be unfair no matter how one drove. But, with so many variables and with the power of todays motors, are a few grams really going to make a difference?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



I would always say that heavier cars are always at a disadvantage given the fact that the weight distribution is even on both cars. there is a reason that every racer is trying to get to the minimum legal weight!!!!



As for durability, As long as you are not lightening the stress points on the car, the lighter car might actually hold up to impact better given same scenarios for the accident.
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:03 PM   #39
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I realize the impetus for this thread is the fact that LiPo batteries require half a pound of lead to be "legal" weight, and it seems silly to add it. I agree, but keeping cars at weight has been a reasonable compromise to get LiPo accepted in club racing. Can you imagine the backlash against LiPo if you weren't willing to make that concession? We need to take baby steps to introduce new things, this hobby is generally resistant to change. Weight rules will inevitably change, but make no mistake, when they do, it will be a definitive death for NiMH, so that rule change won't be made lightly, or probably anytime soon.
Well put!
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:15 PM   #40
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As for durability, As long as you are not lightening the stress points on the car, the lighter car might actually hold up to impact better given same scenarios for the accident.
exactly.. as an example think of it this way.. if our cars weigh 3 pounds, all that weight is absorbed by, for example, a right front arm or knuckle in a wreck.. if the car weighs 2 pounds that is far less energy for a part to have to absorb.. remember.. force = MASS x acceleration..
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:39 PM   #41
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But, with so many variables and with the power of todays motors, are a few grams really going to make a difference?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
No it isn't going to make any difference at all. I agree with you bxpitbull. We should be allowed to shave some ounces off our car and race. Screw the rules!
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:00 PM   #42
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Syndrome, you hit it right on the head.

Tallyrc, excellent point, but, doesnt that bring the whole "build your skills" to the front of ones cerebral cortex?

I wont say "screw the rules", but I think in light of all of the hop ups, chassis options and YES li-whatever you choose batteries, the rules should be revisited......or the constraints lessened...just a tad. Figure like this, guys adhere to all of the rules and.....still get scraped lol

Glad to see some heavy hitters weighing in on this topic!
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Syndrome, you hit it right on the head.

Tallyrc, excellent point, but, doesnt that bring the whole "build your skills" to the front of ones cerebral cortex?

I wont say "screw the rules", but I think in light of all of the hop ups, chassis options and YES li-whatever you choose batteries, the rules should be revisited......or the constraints lessened...just a tad. Figure like this, guys adhere to all of the rules and.....still get scraped lol

Glad to see some heavy hitters weighing in on this topic!

So again your asking for a lighter minium weight rule to acomidate the lighter lipo cells.

Im not sure what your beef is, your currently running rules based on sub c cells so the weight is up, you either asking to break that rule cuz you have lipo or your asking for a complete change of rules in regards to weight and thats fine once lipo is main stream or our your club members all run lipo or the majority do then for sure change the rule, it would be silly for everyone to run around wiht a brick because of an old rule for old gen battereis. But right now if your club is like some lipo is not the majority, so your asking to take the advatage over the majority with a weight drop.

All forms of racing have weight rules. IF an F1 team figuers out how to shed 10lb off there car can they run 10lb lighter then the rest? No. If all the teams submit for a 10lb reduction or the majority does then probably the rule woudl change..

ITs just about fairness not cost. RACING has rules follow them or bash! LOL
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:31 PM   #44
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Hmmmm. Did someone get busted for being underweight?

I used to run my oval cars super light (3-4oz under) at tracks that didn't weigh. Big advantage.

The F1 teams are spending zillions of dollars to make lighter fuel. Why? Because it's an advantage. Those guys are nuts.

A lighter RACE car will be more fragile, because you don't want to lose the existing rigitity of the chassis system. You could make a car out of nice flexible nylon/polyethylene that wouldn't break and it would be light, but it would be slow.

Why not run as light as possible? Because it is an advantage, period. The only racing that I can think of at the moment that doesn't have a minimum weight limit is gravity type racing (pinewood/soapbox derby, etc.). And they have max limits.

There needs to be rules, period. Keeps the rich guys honest.
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:21 PM   #45
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So which is it damn it, lightened cars are more brittle or more durable? Are you people reading one anothers posts or just answering with the first thing that pops into your heads?Like I said, if a guy has a car, be it an expensive light one or not so expensive "heavier" one (other than XRAY, they all costs about the same), if all other factors other than batteries, a guy can shave some ounces, why should he have to weigh down his car? Not about rules, not about leveling. God, its like you people skip past the wording to state the obvious. Stop trying to treat a bullet wound with a band aid and get to the facts. Its obvious a car that is lighter will travel faster but, who goes to a race and doent watch the guys in pratice? If you look around the pits, you can see what your comp is driving and with a minor gear switch, your car performs much different than it did previously. I have seen guys with graphite TC4's with 2400 nicads win outright against cars that were belted and lighter...because the tc4 driver could DRIVE. For the last time, I am not saying everyone have cars that weight 4 pounds and some jerk off show up with a car tipping the scales at 30 ounces, now that would be unfair no matter how one drove. But, with so many variables and with the power of todays motors, are a few grams really going to make a difference?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
No a few grams do not make a difference. Been there. It could be 47 to 50 oz's as a rule, or whatever. It does not have to be no less than 51 oz's.
Set up and driving skill is the difference.

The Q is if the limit is 51 would a pro run 53.? No. Racers will always chase less weight. If you make the limit 47 oz's we will all be running lipos to get there. The current kits are capable of hitting those weights now. The cost is not an issue. Look at those 50 to 75 dollar paint jobs or those bags and carrying cases. Cost is out the window. Face it fellas we are collectors.

We will spend what ever it takes to go faster. It would be cheaper to lighten it up than to try to purcase packs that will get us a tenth faster time pushing tanks. You will save on tires diffs belts bearings and even the batteries wont have to work as hard and in mod you wont need as fast of a motor. Lighter is cheaper. Think about it.
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