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Old 07-19-2007, 01:23 PM   #31
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Having to charge your batteries fully between races cuts their life in half. Thats not really a good thing to have to do.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:26 PM   #32
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:28 PM   #33
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Well im just sharing info that Erika from ProMatch told me.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:29 PM   #34
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LiPo lovers- ask any airplane guy if they get "400 cycles" out of a pack. Good in theory, but wrong. They have more experience than any of us. They will tell you that the packs degrade just like all other batteries. Better life than NiMh? Yes. Ten times better? No.
Be careful what you wish for guys. Once LiPo's are integrated into racing, the technology will run rampant. Operational life will decrease, performance will increase, and in a few years we will be having these debates again.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
LiPo lovers- ask any airplane guy if they get "400 cycles" out of a pack. Good in theory, but wrong. They have more experience than any of us. They will tell you that the packs degrade just like all other batteries. Better life than NiMh? Yes. Ten times better? No.
Be careful what you wish for guys. Once LiPo's are integrated into racing, the technology will run rampant. Operational life will decrease, performance will increase, and in a few years we will be having these debates again.
I agree. Racing that lives and dies by voltage will probably always benefit from newer cells, LiPo or otherwise. I suppose we can only hope newer cells lose their voltage more slowly, but even that remains to be seen. With LiPo, there's definitely beginning to show a correlation between higher voltage at the expensive of greatly reduced cycle life.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:58 PM   #36
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well Jack
i am using my info from airplane guys quite a few etoc champions an they are getting 200 cycles out of a lipo not like im trying to argue but i been in the industry pretty long an have some good friends that are members of team JR an i will have to use that as my reason to disagree i know u are in the matching buisness so u got to promote your product but a lipo will make the rc racing better since there will be no more team packs
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:12 PM   #37
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well Jack
i am using my info from airplane guys quite a few etoc champions an they are getting 200 cycles out of a lipo not like im trying to argue but i been in the industry pretty long an have some good friends that are members of team JR an i will have to use that as my reason to disagree i know u are in the matching buisness so u got to promote your product but a lipo will make the rc racing better since there will be no more team packs
Have to agree and its definately the way of teh future just like brushless.
The classes will benefit from closer performance and there wont be as much a advantage that team drivers enjoy and those with big wallets.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:27 PM   #38
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Dennis- I really don't have an agenda. We will be selling LiPo's in a few weeks, so to me, it is all good. I just feel that many people who are pushing LiPo's are overestimating the capabilities of the technology. If you are racing a competitive national event can you realistically run the same pack all weekend without a drop in performance? Has anyone proven this? You know racers...they will try to extract as much performance as they can get from their equipment. I am NOT saying it isn't true! I am simply stating that until these packs are run at the top level, it is speculative to make such broad claims. I know for a fact that Danny has tested over and over various brands of R/C car LiPo packs at 35 amps and they DO decline in voltage and the IR goes up over time.
By the way, no one gets beaten by "team packs" anymore. This isn't the 90's. LOL.
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:47 PM   #39
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Have to agree and its definately the way of teh future just like brushless.
The classes will benefit from closer performance and there wont be as much a advantage that team drivers enjoy and those with big wallets.
This post sums up the argument for brushless and LiPo. Trust me, it won't equalize the playing field. The best guys will still win, and the people who enjoy tinkering- with motors, etc. will leave the sport. It is already happening. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR- I'm telling you!
What happens when you show up at a race and the factory guys have a new speed control that is a tenth faster than your box stock one you just bought? Won't happen? It already has. And since you cannot tweak the motor with different brushes, springs, etc. you are screwed. The thing that makes this sport exciting is the ability to make changes and see the results. Whether it is chassis, motor, tire, body, etc, changes- that is the fun of it. If you start "dumbing down" our choices as racers, the sport will suffer. I think BL and LiPo are a FANTASTIC idea for entry level...but not the existing competitve racing environment.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
LiPo lovers- ask any airplane guy if they get "400 cycles" out of a pack. Good in theory, but wrong. They have more experience than any of us. They will tell you that the packs degrade just like all other batteries. Better life than NiMh? Yes. Ten times better? No.
Be careful what you wish for guys. Once LiPo's are integrated into racing, the technology will run rampant. Operational life will decrease, performance will increase, and in a few years we will be having these debates again.
Jack take a look at page 2 of this test that linger posted awhile back. After 205 cycles of a 4800 Kokam pack at 12C (57.6A), do you see any degradation of voltage or capacity? These are not the same packs airplane guys are using.
http://www.slowflyer.ch/downloads/tn06003v2.pdf
And for the record I did not steer this thread towards lipo for once....

Last edited by kuzo; 07-19-2007 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Moron forgot the link
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Jack Rimer View Post
This post sums up the argument for brushless and LiPo.
Not so fast...There are a lot of different reasons why some people prefer to run BL and/or lipo. For me personally, it's all about being able to run multiple classes at the club level. BL + Lipo makes it so much easier, simpler, less expensive, etc... All you have to do is clean and sauce the tires, make sure everything is tight, and shoot the sh!t with the guys.

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Trust me, it won't equalize the playing field.
Couldn't agree with you more.

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The best guys will still win, and the people who enjoy tinkering- with motors, etc. will leave the sport. It is already happening. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR- I'm telling you!
It's funny you mentioned that because I got back into racing last year after a 5 year hiatus solely because of BL. I guess I'm replacing one of those guys who likes to cut comms and maintain sub c batteries.


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What happens when you show up at a race and the factory guys have a new speed control that is a tenth faster than your box stock one you just bought? Won't happen? It already has. And since you cannot tweak the motor with different brushes, springs, etc. you are screwed. The thing that makes this sport exciting is the ability to make changes and see the results. Whether it is chassis, motor, tire, body, etc, changes- that is the fun of it. If you start "dumbing down" our choices as racers, the sport will suffer.
The thing that's exciting about BL + Lipo for me is that I don't have to deal with all that BS and I can still show up to the track and have just as much power on tap and knowledge in my head as the big dogs. Too bad that doesn't take a second off my lap times.

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I think BL and LiPo are a FANTASTIC idea for entry level...but not the existing competitve racing environment.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Just giving you a perspective from the other side of the fence.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:40 PM   #42
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Here we go

Lipo guys screwing up another valid topic and debate.

Please take your back yard bashing comments to the Clodbuster monster truck thread!

I think I speek for many who are sick of hearing about Lipooooooooo!
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:42 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by march to my own View Post
Here we go

Lipo guys screwing up another valid topic and debate.

Please take your back yard bashing comments to the Clodbuster monster truck thread!

I think I speek for many who are sick of hearing about Lipooooooooo!
Enjoy your run as one of the sheep, we'll work out the future for you. Baaaaaa little sheep, baaaaaa.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:42 PM   #44
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Oh,

And by the way. Jack has forgotten more about RC RACING then most of you lipo clowns know put togather.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by march to my own View Post
Oh,

And by the way. Jack has forgotten more about RC RACING then most of you lipo clowns know put togather.
Yea, Jack's comments about brushless and LiPo make him sound like a real visionary. He should be proud of that one.
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