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Old 07-19-2007, 07:29 PM   #61
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We are still thinking about this and we will make a decision soon

Yes Cleveland is about tradition for 28 years. and we will continue be about world class racing and family.I say family because it is like a huge family that gets togetter every year and go's racing. I can't wait to see all my old friends and make some new one's. If running rubber tires is the only reason you would come to Cleveland you are going to miss alot of great racing, and meeting the great people in the racing world. I thank every one for all the ideas and I hope to see you all this year in Cleveland.
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Old 07-20-2007, 12:01 AM   #62
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Thats the IIC mate.

Cleveland is just a big local foam tire race now. Tradition is the only reason it is still big.
Your a bit off there boss tradition is no where near what keeps people coming back year after year sure IIC is a great race along with snowbirds and so forth.Not taking anything away from any of them at all.If you never have been to cleveland I invite you to come down and race with all of us and have great time which I am sure you will!

Remember every race out there has waiting list so I guess everyone has thier own idea what is best for them.I won't sit here and say cleveland is the best race around becuase that is for each person to decide personally I love all of the races for what they are and aren't.

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Old 07-20-2007, 06:00 AM   #63
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I hear a lot about tradition on this thread. Does introducing rubber tires mean the tradition really leaves? Sometimes adding traditions can be a good thing, doesnt mean the others go away! For example, did people stop enjoying this race when they started allowing TCs? I guess I dont understand why some people are so against it. I can understand not wanting to run in the class but why prevent others from coming that otherwise might if there was the class?
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:40 AM   #64
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I think they should run rubber tire at Cleveland because it is cheaper to run because you don't have to buy foam tires and turn them down to next nothing and use several sets. Buy one set of rubber tires and you're good for the weekend. The majority of the world runs rubber tires everywhere.

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4 days in hotel, if I can split 4 ways, $100
Gas to and from, $50 (if I can split 2 ways $25) I'm just over 200 miles away
Entry fee $75
Cheap Eats $50

Possible to do this race for $250 bare bones. Adding $100 or more in tires does make a difference.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:31 AM   #65
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I hear a lot about tradition on this thread. Does introducing rubber tires mean the tradition really leaves? Sometimes adding traditions can be a good thing, doesnt mean the others go away! For example, did people stop enjoying this race when they started allowing TCs? I guess I dont understand why some people are so against it. I can understand not wanting to run in the class but why prevent others from coming that otherwise might if there was the class?
A 500 or so entry limit means that the rubber tire spots you're proposing have to take spots from other classes. So if we add rubber we're preventing racers from attending who would have signed up for the existing classes. The race fills up every year, then there's the waiting list. We're not hurting for racers, so why replace racers we already have with a new racers from a whole new class?

Next up, Alex made the point perfectly, Cleveland has always had layouts that are extremely tight and technical, too tight and technical for rubber tire touring car. Part of Cleveland's mystique is the difficulty of the layout compared to most of the other big races. Don't get me wrong, I love the Snowbirds, and any show Scotty puts on is definitely worth the price of admission. But unfortunately, concessions need to be made when you design a layout for rubber tire, and those concessions are wider lanes and more sweeping corners. What the TC crowd needs to remember is that Cleveland is a 12th scale race that offers TC classes, not the other way around like some of the other events around the country.

And yes, there were some folks who disliked the addition of TC to the program, because back then we had to open up lane width, and like SteveL said, the rubber tires screwed up the traction. Once the TC's went to foams, the lane width was reduced, (but still not as tight as the all 12th days), the traction was normal, and all 500 or so were happy again.

We don't need to dilute the classes any further either, but that's a whole different argument.

There are tons of races that offer rubber tire classes, The Champs doesn't need to be one of them.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #66
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Man....this is just your typical foam tire club race. By my count, give or take a few, there were 441 entries at last year's champs. Just another club race huh.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:19 AM   #67
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If they do rubbers I think the hand out should be those old Losi green spec tires. Of course, the racers can chose to run the step-pins or ribs, front or rear.

Try setting that one up................
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:27 AM   #68
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Possible to do this race for $250 bare bones. Adding $100 or more in tires does make a difference.
right on. i start my foams at 60+mm (right out of the package). i have used the same set for the last three indoor champs (blue front and rear). i have to get new ones this year. i might switch to rubber tires if a set can go 4 or 5 consecutive years, so let us know what you guys decide. i don't want to have to buy new tires for this race in back to back years, so hopefully rubber will stay around if you decide to run it this year.

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Old 07-20-2007, 10:29 AM   #69
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right on. i start my foams at 60+mm (right out of the package). i have used the same set for the last three indoor champs (blue front and rear). i have to get new ones this year. i might switch to rubber tires if a set can go 4 or 5 consecutive years, so let us know what you guys decide. i don't want to have to buy new tires for this race in back to back years, so hopefully rubber will stay around if you decide to run it this year.

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ROLMFAO!!!!!!ROLMFAO!!!!!!ROLMFAO!!!!!!ROLMFAO!!!! !!ROLMFAO!!!!!!
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:33 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by seaball View Post
right on. i start my foams at 60+mm (right out of the package). i have used the same set for the last three indoor champs (blue front and rear). i have to get new ones this year. i might switch to rubber tires if a set can go 4 or 5 consecutive years, so let us know what you guys decide. i don't want to have to buy new tires for this race in back to back years, so hopefully rubber will stay around if you decide to run it this year.

- ronnie james deon -
It's true, he also has a special method to alleviate the problem of chunking foams. He scrapes all the tire dust off his buddy's truer, mixes it with contact cement and maple syrup, and makes what he refers to as "Seaball's Tire Spackle" He store it in a sample jar in his pit box. Whenever he chunks a tire he just fills the chunk in with "spackle" waits for it to set-up then heads off to the truer.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:46 AM   #71
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By my count, give or take a few, there were 441 entries at last year's champs.
That has all the makings of a colossal man-pile.

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Old 07-20-2007, 10:58 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
A 500 or so entry limit means that the rubber tire spots you're proposing have to take spots from other classes. So if we add rubber we're preventing racers from attending who would have signed up for the existing classes. The race fills up every year, then there's the waiting list. We're not hurting for racers, so why replace racers we already have with a new racers from a whole new class?

Next up, Alex made the point perfectly, Cleveland has always had layouts that are extremely tight and technical, too tight and technical for rubber tire touring car. Part of Cleveland's mystique is the difficulty of the layout compared to most of the other big races. Don't get me wrong, I love the Snowbirds, and any show Scotty puts on is definitely worth the price of admission. But unfortunately, concessions need to be made when you design a layout for rubber tire, and those concessions are wider lanes and more sweeping corners. What the TC crowd needs to remember is that Cleveland is a 12th scale race that offers TC classes, not the other way around like some of the other events around the country.

And yes, there were some folks who disliked the addition of TC to the program, because back then we had to open up lane width, and like SteveL said, the rubber tires screwed up the traction. Once the TC's went to foams, the lane width was reduced, (but still not as tight as the all 12th days), the traction was normal, and all 500 or so were happy again.

We don't need to dilute the classes any further either, but that's a whole different argument.

There are tons of races that offer rubber tire classes, The Champs doesn't need to be one of them.
OK, so how about we have a new tradition with a huge Cleveland rubber tire race in the spring to kick off the outdoor season It can be over Easter weekend.
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:06 AM   #73
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OK, so how about we have a new tradition with a huge Cleveland rubber tire race in the spring to kick off the outdoor season It can be over Easter weekend.
Fine with me, open track layout, and we can have Trophy "Bunnies"
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:51 PM   #74
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Does that mean there would be a 1/12th rubber class? Just remember The Champs has been, and always be a 1/12th scale race. We tried having a rubber class at the Halloween Classic and nobody entered. I also hope that Mr MX will enter so all us old fossils can kick his ass.

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Old 07-20-2007, 07:47 PM   #75
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Yeah, what Chuck said!
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