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Old 07-16-2007, 06:59 PM   #46
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ok, i found some info on a Japanese site.

The dry weight (Ti and aluminum screws, no electrics) was 505g for both chassis. The lower deck is about 5mm wider on MS. Does that mean the battery is still further out than the msxx?

Still no test drive report yet though.
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:37 PM   #47
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Xanavi,

I am just about finished with building the TA05MS and just by looking at how it is designed, from a performance perspective, I can pretty confidently tell you that it builds upon the strengths of the original TA05 and diminishes its weaknesses.

Over the course of about 2 years of owning the original TA05, I've recognized that it has excellent corner entry characteristics; it turns on a dime without sacrificing stability. What I observed as the main weaknesses are 1) overall weight 2) left and right weight distribution 3) corner exit/acceleration. The MS version has reduced weight, relocates the battery for better L/R weight distribution, and has a shorter rear belt plus a slightly more rear mounted motor for better acceleration characteristics. But since the car is brand new and untested, I don't know to what extent these modifications actually help the chassis' performance.

Before I preordered the TA05MS, I went through the same dilemma as you. I was thinking about getting a MSXX for a while, but I couldn't resist the TA05MS once I saw it. I was already probably biased though, since I already had a TA05 and had grown fond of it.

Good luck making your decision!

Ken
hmmm... if only I could have both kits then I wouldn't have any problems... but I just can't for I am just a student without any job yet... but I will see more post?info about the two kits here and see what is really the best... thanks btw ken for the inputs... it helps me think about the ta05ms but do you have more inputs about the msxx??? btw, is the 05ms comes with standard titanium screws???
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:47 PM   #48
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hmmm... if only I could have both kits then I wouldn't have any problems... but I just can't for I am just a student without any job yet... but I will see more post?info about the two kits here and see what is really the best... thanks btw ken for the inputs... it helps me think about the ta05ms but do you have more inputs about the msxx??? btw, is the 05ms comes with standard titanium screws???
BOTH THE MSXX AND THE 05MS HAS STANDARD STEEL SCREWS TITANIUM SCREWS WILL ALREADY BE A HOP-UP OPTIONS FOR BOTH KITS
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:06 PM   #49
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BOTH THE MSXX AND THE 05MS HAS STANDARD STEEL SCREWS TITANIUM SCREWS WILL ALREADY BE A HOP-UP OPTIONS FOR BOTH KITS
darn it... oh well, maybe it wasnt really meant to have ti screws not like the MRE MSX...

anyone has pictures (diff angles) of their ta05ms and trf415msxx??? kindly post them for me to drewl on them while I still don't have it... hehehe...

Btw, right the msxx has a front one way and center one way while 05ms has only I think front one way and not the center???
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:54 PM   #50
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I think it was mentioned in this thread that the battery is moved about 1 cm towards the center in comparison to the TA05/TA05R. On that topic, for a while, I have been wondering about how lighter batteries such as li-po and 5-cell when paired with heavier brushless setups will influence chassis design. The Losi car will probably be unaffected because of everything being lined up right down the center, but as for chassis designed to achieve an ideal L/R weight distribution with heavier batteries and a lighter load on the motor side, won't using lighter batteries disturb the balance? You can always use ballast to balance out a car, but that isn't the best solution.

Redbones, in what situations did you find that the TA05R lacked performance?
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:43 PM   #51
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The 05 tends to roll much more than the other high end cars. I think this is because the battery is further away from the center of the car. Also, it has this feeling that the rear doesn't have enough traction coming out of turns. It is very stable during the turn though. Tried various springs, oil, suspension mounts, oneways, you name it. When I first got my normal 05 a while back, I thought it was a very easy car to drive. But as I moved up the ranks, the driving characteristics of the higherend cars seemed to match my driving style. The track is overdone by 415s so I thought the new MS would be original(a little while). I read back in the forums that the 05 is still a novice-intermediate car, and the 415 series is at a different level. I just didn't want the 05ms to be just an "overly hopped up 05" Sure, the motor has been moved back a little, and the battery brought closer to the center(not as much as MSXX still). But is that enough to make it as good as the MSXX?
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:56 PM   #52
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The 05 tends to roll much more than the other high end cars. I think this is because the battery is further away from the center of the car. Also, it has this feeling that the rear doesn't have enough traction coming out of turns. It is very stable during the turn though. Tried various springs, oil, suspension mounts, oneways, you name it. When I first got my normal 05 a while back, I thought it was a very easy car to drive. But as I moved up the ranks, the driving characteristics of the higherend cars seemed to match my driving style. The track is overdone by 415s so I thought the new MS would be original(a little while). I read back in the forums that the 05 is still a novice-intermediate car, and the 415 series is at a different level. I just didn't want the 05ms to be just an "overly hopped up 05" Sure, the motor has been moved back a little, and the battery brought closer to the center(not as much as MSXX still). But is that enough to make it as good as the MSXX?
Every kit have its own characteristics (we're talking about the 05ms and the msxx) so it really depends now on the driver what kit will suit him/her... it also depends on the track you're going to race, if it has many straight aways, then what you need is the msxx, but if there are little straight but plenty of turns (in short, somewhat technical) then I think 05ms is the kit for you... or is it the other way around??

Correct me if wrong in my post...
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Old 07-17-2007, 12:49 AM   #53
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But is that enough to make it as good as the MSXX?
That's a good question. I don't think Tamiya intends to market the 05MS to the same crowd as the old 05 and the 415 might be due for replacement, but if the 05MS is meant to be the replacement for the 415, it has some big shoes to fill.

After running my old 05 quite a few times, I felt that most of the slow-feeling and excessive roll was an effect of the chassis and shock tower flex. To try and cure the problem, I shortened and angled the upper camber links on all four ends, bought a LW chassis, carbon shock towers, and 3Racing carbon chassis braces. It helped greatly, but I've never gotten a chance to test it against "high end" cars at a formal race because of weekend busy weekends for the last year. I did get the chance to try it out in "fun", unorganized racing on week nights against Evo IVs, TC4s, TA04s, Cyclones, and Pro-4s and it easily hung with them.

Thus, with the new refinements, personally, I have very few doubts about the performance of the 05MS.
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:31 AM   #54
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darn it... oh well, maybe it wasnt really meant to have ti screws not like the MRE MSX...

anyone has pictures (diff angles) of their ta05ms and trf415msxx??? kindly post them for me to drewl on them while I still don't have it... hehehe...

Btw, right the msxx has a front one way and center one way while 05ms has only I think front one way and not the center???
Hi Xanavi:

I will try to post some pictures today, the thing is I still have no electronics installed on the MS, if I manage to put them on it, I will post some pictures...

regarding one-ways, you're right.

BTW: I think only time will tell about the real racing usability of the 05MS. I like a lot my 05 due the fact it leans quite a bit and in some low traction situations (asphalt with dust - there's a lot here in Madrid, the dust, not racing facilities ) it just seems to grab a little better entering the curves. But the TRF415MSXX is just mean regarding rear traction, everytime you push the throttle it's there, grabbing like an spider... but that reminds me the 05 has 2 toe in on the carriers and 0 on chassis and the MSXX has 3 inboard and 0 on the carriers.... hmmm I wonder if I put 3 inboard on the 05 what would happen...
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:01 AM   #55
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Hi Xanavi:

I will try to post some pictures today, the thing is I still have no electronics installed on the MS, if I manage to put them on it, I will post some pictures...

regarding one-ways, you're right.

BTW: I think only time will tell about the real racing usability of the 05MS. I like a lot my 05 due the fact it leans quite a bit and in some low traction situations (asphalt with dust - there's a lot here in Madrid, the dust, not racing facilities ) it just seems to grab a little better entering the curves. But the TRF415MSXX is just mean regarding rear traction, everytime you push the throttle it's there, grabbing like an spider... but that reminds me the 05 has 2 toe in on the carriers and 0 on chassis and the MSXX has 3 inboard and 0 on the carriers.... hmmm I wonder if I put 3 inboard on the 05 what would happen...
that would be great!!! thanks in advance bro!!!

anyway, regarding the 05ms and the msxx, which one do you prefer better??? I like strong traction but I also like excellent handling in corners...

btw, about corners, isn't the msxx excellent or good in corners too??? why and why not???
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:19 AM   #56
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that would be great!!! thanks in advance bro!!!

anyway, regarding the 05ms and the msxx, which one do you prefer better??? I like strong traction but I also like excellent handling in corners...

btw, about corners, isn't the msxx excellent or good in corners too??? why and why not???
From going from a TA05 with a 3 Racing CF kit, to a TRF415MRE, I dropped my lap times by about 10-15%, which is HUGE!

Don't compare Toys to racers, the TA05MS is still based on a TA05 which is at best a budget race car.

The 415 was designed from the ground up to be a racer.

Why the hoards of TA05 fans (which I was one and still am to a point) wish to convince us the TA05MS will run with the 415 is beyond me. It's like saying a Corolla can run with a WRX
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:26 AM   #57
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From going from a TA05 with a 3 Racing CF kit, to a TRF415MRE, I dropped my lap times by about 10-15%, which is HUGE!

Don't compare Toys to racers, the TA05MS is still based on a TA05 which is at best a budget race car.

The 415 was designed from the ground up to be a racer.

Why the hoards of TA05 fans (which I was one and still am to a point) wish to convince us the TA05MS will run with the 415 is beyond me. It's like saying a Corolla can run with a WRX
nexxus: If you carefully read my post:
Quote:
I think only time will tell about the real racing usability of the 05MS.
Noone is saying that the MSX is not a capable platform, not the ultimate winning tool.... but it's seems to me that compare the 05MS with a toy is simply a prejudice, as so far I haven't heard consistently reports of the 05MS being beaten by the MSXX... nor the 05MS is 100% based on the 'classic' 05... thus I would wait until I prove it to say "nah, the 05MS is just better/worse than the MSXX".

cheers,
al
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:00 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
From going from a TA05 with a 3 Racing CF kit, to a TRF415MRE, I dropped my lap times by about 10-15%, which is HUGE!

Don't compare Toys to racers, the TA05MS is still based on a TA05 which is at best a budget race car.

The 415 was designed from the ground up to be a racer.

Why the hoards of TA05 fans (which I was one and still am to a point) wish to convince us the TA05MS will run with the 415 is beyond me. It's like saying a Corolla can run with a WRX
10-15% - WOW!!!

I shall have to get a 415 right away!!!

If I can get an instant improvement of 10% compared to my R, then I would have set the track record at the tarmac track in Carlisle last weekend. And that was with knackered cells and part worn tyres! But because I was driving that "toy" TA05 I could only manage pole in the B...
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:20 AM   #59
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Thanks for the info! Quick question on the msxx.
The lower deck is 2mm thick. Are there any issues with its strength that tamiya had to sell a 2.5mm stick pack conversion kit?
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:52 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
From going from a TA05 with a 3 Racing CF kit, to a TRF415MRE, I dropped my lap times by about 10-15%, which is HUGE!

Don't compare Toys to racers, the TA05MS is still based on a TA05 which is at best a budget race car.

The 415 was designed from the ground up to be a racer.

Why the hoards of TA05 fans (which I was one and still am to a point) wish to convince us the TA05MS will run with the 415 is beyond me. It's like saying a Corolla can run with a WRX
interesting post. it says in your signature you run 540? if thats the case, then yes any 415 will have a significant advantage over a TA05R and esp. a stock TA05.
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