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Old 07-10-2007, 12:12 PM   #16
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Pure bloody GENIUS!
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:15 PM   #17
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have you been racing longer them me?
Yes!! When I started 31 years ago, it was 10 (very large) laps of the Alexandra Palace Main Hall. That took about four minutes. When Igarashi motors and softer foam tyres appeared, we got down to under three minutes, at which point we declared a four-minute race. As things formalised, we adopted five-minute races.

By about '78, we were on polished floors with silicone-covered tyres and flyweight cars, so the time was increased to 6 minutes. Sometime around 1981/2, it moved to eight minutes, and carpet.

The challenge of 12th is driving the car - success is measured by the skill and talent of the driver, not the depth of their pocket. We have proper races, where drivers can get back to the front after whatever fate has befallen them on Lap One. The best RC races you will ever see are 12th, when the pole-sitter gets pushed down the field and charges through to win, or when the top three, four, five, or six race nose to tail for large parts of the race. Similarly, the best on-road drivers always have a clutch of 12th titles to their name at National and International level - Magic Johnson, Neisinger, Hirosaka, Spashett, Moore, etc.

The essence of 12th is driving, and anything less than eight minutes turns it into charging and barging - eight minutes for me, always.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
12th = 8 minutes. It's always been that way, and should continue.
Amen!!

Its one of the oldest classes in R/C, no need to mess with it - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

it has survived by being the most consistent class, no need for super voltage batteries, tires, cooling fans, blah blah blah - that alone should say something about the class
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:29 PM   #19
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The interest is growing big time for 12th scale racing. There lies a problem though for big races like Vegas and the 'birds. The entries have to be limited because there is just not enough time to run a ton of 8 minute races, when touring cars are 5 minutes. You can run basically 6 touring heats to 4 GTP heats. That's 20 more entries. So why not go back to 5 minute races, maybe 8 minute A-mains? This will allow more racers in 12th at big races. Will the industry accept this I wonder?
When I raced TC in Japan the format was 3 min quals and 5 min mains. During qualifying it was your "fastest lap" that determined your place on the grid. The only rule was that you had to finish all 3 mins in order for your qualifier to count. It was balls-out racing for 3 mins, the mains were standard 5 minutes. If someone would set a new TQ at the 1 min mark, they would drive conservatively just to finish. In 1/12 we could do 4 min quals and still have 8 min mains. This format would save some time at big events.
Just my $.01
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:30 PM   #20
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it's a shame that 12th scale doesn't get the reconition that it should have as the hardest class to drive hands down. TC is for rookies and track time. 12th scale will always be faster even with 4 cell and even more now that tc is going to 5 cell. all TC cars are the bastard children of tamiya and HPI
YES!!!! LOL! Thanks Nash, exactly what I was thinking...

...and at the risk of some slight thread-jacking the bonus round question is; who knows the origins of 4 cell 12th scale?

-Sean
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:06 PM   #21
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I remember 1/12th on asphalt was 6 cell and 1/12th on carpet was 4 cell back in the 80's.

Where is Barry Baker? He knows, that was his thing back then.
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:14 PM   #22
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I remember 1/12th on asphalt was 6 cell and 1/12th on carpet was 4 cell back in the 80's.

Where is Barry Baker? He knows, that was his thing back then.
yup...I remember those days...Probably around 85 thru 89

if you look the 12l3 has 6 slots in its chassis because of that
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:25 PM   #23
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YES!!!! LOL! Thanks Nash, exactly what I was thinking...

...and at the risk of some slight thread-jacking the bonus round question is; who knows the origins of 4 cell 12th scale?

-Sean

Did you invent 4 cell?
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:42 PM   #24
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I will simplify the big race issue.

There are to be 2 12th scale classes. Stock or 19T and Modified. Persons receiving free or reduced cost material (hardware) and/or monitery/financial compensation from a R/C Industry related company will race in the Modified division. (reference R/C Industry related company as any entity that makes a product that can be marketed/used as an essential item on a race vehicle.)

basically 2 classes, keeps the professionals/professional amateur drivers from racing in in the lower ability classes. You can not be sponsored or compensated in the lower class by an r/c related company. But you can have Pepsi, Uncle Ned's Garage Door, or JimBob's Used Car Sales sponsor you. This will curb some of the skill stacking in the lower levels but improve r/c exposure to the masses through any remaining skill stacking.
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Old 07-10-2007, 03:36 PM   #25
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Please count my vote as another strongly in support of keeping the 8 minute races for 1/12th cars. Much of the reason 1/12th is so pure is the need to stay clean and to use sound racecraft and strategy as the run develops. Also it's necessary to setup the car so that it's good for the whole 8 minutes, which presents it's own challenges. As others have pointed out, the race is long enough to overcome some adversity and to still end up with a good finish or even a win. By contrast, the sedan heats are so short that very few pilots use much patience or discipline. Everybody knows that the races are short and so most guys seem to drive at or beyond the car's limit from the git go. There's way more propensity to use the chrome horn and that makes for comparatively ugly racing. When was the last time anybody saw a sedan frieght-train with 3 or 4 cars running nose to tail for a bunch of laps in a row with each guy looking for a hole or trying to intimidate the guy in front into making a miscue? That just doesn't seem happen with the larger cars. From what I've seen, the typical sedan mentality seems to be "move or be moved"....mostly the latter. I'll be happy to stick with my technical little cars and their full 8 minute runs.
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kraig View Post
Why should big races dictate what happens down to the grass roots level?
I'm not going to say that they should ... but when the weekend racers want to compete against the top local racers ... who want to compete against the top regional guys... who want to challenge the nationals... who want to win worlds... it all flows downhill from what the big races do.

There are certainly plenty of folks out there taking a different approach, just doing things their own way and not worrying about the outside world much. If they are having fun and keeping their R/C races going, I guess there's nothing wrong with that either.

Oh yeah, the question... I think 8 minute runs are cool and make the competition interesting.

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Old 07-10-2007, 04:55 PM   #27
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If every thing I wanted to become a ROAR rule, became a ROAR rule, I would make 5 minute qualifiers and 10 minute mains. I would like to see cars have to come in and pit. I would also like to see longer races so you have more time to make your move, 5 minutes is nothing, 8 is better, but 10 would be intense. You won't have to be as aggressive to get the lead, and can work more on consistancy. They should make an endurance class that runs for 20 minutes, with a battery change some where half way.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:20 PM   #28
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pitstops in electric? Thats retarded, go run nitro if you want pit stops. Yeah just what the electric classes need, a second person to race. Humm They need quick change tires too, so that way you need twice as many people, batteries, and tires to race. Oh, oh and a quick change motor mount! - lets see how expensive we can make the class.

LEAVE 1/12 SCALE RULES ALONE!, THE CLASS HAS BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN MOST OF YOU FOR A REASON< BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT THERE TO SCREW IT UP!
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
pitstops in electric? Thats retarded, go run nitro if you want pit stops. Yeah just what the electric classes need, a second person to race. Humm They need quick change tires too, so that way you need twice as many people, batteries, and tires to race. Oh, oh and a quick change motor mount! - lets see how expensive we can make the class.

LEAVE 1/12 SCALE RULES ALONE!, THE CLASS HAS BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN MOST OF YOU FOR A REASON< BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT THERE TO SCREW IT UP!
Good point. 1/12th is fun as it is, leave it alone.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:20 PM   #30
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just a note we are running 6 minutes 19t buggy and truck heats and 7 minute mains. so we are ahead of the curve with running more time at the club level. it's all about getting the racers the best experience at our local track. if we weren't such hardcore carpet racers we would probably up our tc and 12th scale to longer races just to give people more for there money.
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