STOCK MOTORS
07-06-2007, 02:15 PM
#1
STOCK MOTORS
I have an Trinity pro tweaked cobalt stock motor with the following dyno results
21,176 rpm
58 watt power
41.7% efficiency
51.6 torque
It seems to me I have seen Trinity stock motors with 70 plus watt power ratings.
My local hobby shop says that all the latest Trinity shipments have been crap.
Where do you guys buy your stock motors, and what are the dyno results?
I have been to Axiom and Team Kwik's websites, one better than the other?
Steve
21,176 rpm
58 watt power
41.7% efficiency
51.6 torque
It seems to me I have seen Trinity stock motors with 70 plus watt power ratings.
My local hobby shop says that all the latest Trinity shipments have been crap.
Where do you guys buy your stock motors, and what are the dyno results?
I have been to Axiom and Team Kwik's websites, one better than the other?
Steve
07-06-2007, 02:19 PM
#2
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Yeah ... Team Brood. 
Trinity "tuned" motors are slammed out so quick it creates quality issues. Any of the motor tuners can sell you something for cheaper, and from someone who knows how to tune the motor for maximum results.
Trinity "tuned" motors are slammed out so quick it creates quality issues. Any of the motor tuners can sell you something for cheaper, and from someone who knows how to tune the motor for maximum results.
07-06-2007, 02:25 PM
#3
I can vouch for Kwik. Shawn will not let a motor go out the door unless its a performer. I have never purchased a motor from them that sucks. I'm at work and don't have any of my dyno print-outs in front of me...
07-06-2007, 05:26 PM
#4
Right, it's possible to get a good motor from Trinity, but it's a matter of pure luck, because they do the same thing to every motor(whether that motor wants it or not) & do a quick test before sending them to shops. But the smaller, reputable tuners(like Brood, Kwik, EAMotorsports, FullThrottle, etc.) really do spend more individual time with their motors, & make sure it's at its best before they sell it, so they've already weeded out the poor & below average motors, so you have a much better chance of getting something strong(& don't worry too much about the raw dyno numbers, some motors actually run better in the car than the numbers would indicate, & others run worse than their numbers would suggest, it's in the car that really matters)....
07-06-2007, 05:40 PM
#5
You can't go wrong with eXpress motorsports!
07-06-2007, 07:26 PM
#6
Tech Regular
i bought a team brood CO27, but my EPIC ROAR stock motor still felt better
the team brood motor actually felt quite slow. is there something wrong?
the team brood motor actually felt quite slow. is there something wrong?
07-06-2007, 07:32 PM
#7
07-06-2007, 07:56 PM
#8
Tech Elite
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Yea man, check out eXpress motorsports you'll have some mad ripp!!!
http://www.tmxpress.net/ check it out
http://www.tmxpress.net/ check it out
07-06-2007, 08:07 PM
#9
07-07-2007, 02:26 AM
#10
All of the motors building the Epic based motors all get them from the same place so it all comes down to 2 things that seperate one tuner from the next. They are.....
1. Integrity. There are ways to cheat at anything and motor building is no exception. You can cheat by inflating your dyno results and you can cheat by advancing the timing - or both. Most motor builders are using the Fantom Facts Machine which is good since they are fairly consistent from one to the next but there are ways to artificially inflate the numbers on them. Also, it is easy to advance the timing and get higher power numbers - especially RPM. There's more ways to cheat but those are 2 ways.
2. Attention to detail in the building process. High volume will very likely means the motors are assembled, stuck on a dyno, get the sticker and slapped in a package and up for sale someplace. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a dud. A good tuner will do all of the following (not just say they do) check/zap magnets, PROPERLY align brush hoods, PROPERLY shim the armature to center of magnetic field AND shim to remove end play, cut the comm with a diamond bit (I use a marker prior to cutting to ensure the comm is round - Hint: look for a little marker line at the base of the comm), fully seat the bushings/bearings and ensure no binding and finally take the time to break in/seat the brushes.
How do you know who does this and who doesn't? Check end play - if the armature moves in more that .010" then there is too much slop. That will equal inconsistent performance since the armature can move in and out and the brushes won't seat in a consistent spot. Be sure the comm was cut with a diamond bit and is round - hard to check without a comm lathe but at least look at the finish on the comm - it should be very smooth and no filings in the slots. Look for neat soldering on the brushes. Look at the brushes after a while and see if they are centered on the comm (brush hood alignment). There are probably a few other things but this is a good start.
Honestly, anybody can build a fast motor with the right tools, experience, patience and attention to detail - it's whether they take the time to do so or not that makes the difference.
As far as power ratings on a stock moter... I would want to see at least 66 watts, at least 100 torque and RPM in the 20K range. Generally higher RPM motors have a little less torque and and higher torque motors have a little less RPM. For example one motor might be 19,500 RPM and 106 torque and another motor might be 21,000 RPM and 101 torque. I don't personally worry about effeciency.
I haven't seen any quality issues with the motors coming from Trinity, BTW. In fact I am seeing very consistent results on the motors I am building. I get a dud once in a while like anybody else but that's just how it goes.
Sorry for the long winded post - I hope it was helpful.
1. Integrity. There are ways to cheat at anything and motor building is no exception. You can cheat by inflating your dyno results and you can cheat by advancing the timing - or both. Most motor builders are using the Fantom Facts Machine which is good since they are fairly consistent from one to the next but there are ways to artificially inflate the numbers on them. Also, it is easy to advance the timing and get higher power numbers - especially RPM. There's more ways to cheat but those are 2 ways.
2. Attention to detail in the building process. High volume will very likely means the motors are assembled, stuck on a dyno, get the sticker and slapped in a package and up for sale someplace. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a dud. A good tuner will do all of the following (not just say they do) check/zap magnets, PROPERLY align brush hoods, PROPERLY shim the armature to center of magnetic field AND shim to remove end play, cut the comm with a diamond bit (I use a marker prior to cutting to ensure the comm is round - Hint: look for a little marker line at the base of the comm), fully seat the bushings/bearings and ensure no binding and finally take the time to break in/seat the brushes.
How do you know who does this and who doesn't? Check end play - if the armature moves in more that .010" then there is too much slop. That will equal inconsistent performance since the armature can move in and out and the brushes won't seat in a consistent spot. Be sure the comm was cut with a diamond bit and is round - hard to check without a comm lathe but at least look at the finish on the comm - it should be very smooth and no filings in the slots. Look for neat soldering on the brushes. Look at the brushes after a while and see if they are centered on the comm (brush hood alignment). There are probably a few other things but this is a good start.
Honestly, anybody can build a fast motor with the right tools, experience, patience and attention to detail - it's whether they take the time to do so or not that makes the difference.
As far as power ratings on a stock moter... I would want to see at least 66 watts, at least 100 torque and RPM in the 20K range. Generally higher RPM motors have a little less torque and and higher torque motors have a little less RPM. For example one motor might be 19,500 RPM and 106 torque and another motor might be 21,000 RPM and 101 torque. I don't personally worry about effeciency.
I haven't seen any quality issues with the motors coming from Trinity, BTW. In fact I am seeing very consistent results on the motors I am building. I get a dud once in a while like anybody else but that's just how it goes.
Sorry for the long winded post - I hope it was helpful.
07-07-2007, 02:41 AM
#11
Good post
07-07-2007, 08:59 AM
#12
None of the top tuners use the fantom machine.........the thing is junk.....testing at 5 volts doesn't really tell you much, especially when the machine is guessing the torque calculation.
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
07-07-2007, 09:15 AM
#13
Trinity Motors
We have built Trinity motors for some time. With excellent results. The success with any motor is time invested. The Brood or any other motor may offer out of the box results but after a day run you’re rebuilding the motor back to zero. What changes are Com diameter, brush, timing, springs and friction tolerances need to be examined. Most racers will tear a new motor down right out of the box just to see what’s what and then rebuild to suit. As for Trinity considering the volume of motors they sell it's a competitive product you can win with.
07-07-2007, 12:11 PM
#14
07-07-2007, 01:03 PM
#15
i run a putnam stock motor right now
runs VERY FAST
runs VERY FAST