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Old 07-06-2007, 03:04 PM   #1
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Default Bonded & sinthered rotors

right can you put a sinthered rotor in
1 Noval EX budget cans

2 Nosram Dragon motors


got a club looking into allowing BL in with the 27t brushed class

so since these come with Bonded rotors ,trying to see how they can police the motors

and getting the members/racers to pay for the budget systems from Novak EX or Nosram dragon or even LRP's new
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:28 PM   #2
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You can run sintered rotors in the Novak EX can.

You'll know a sintered rotor is in there because when you spin by hand it will cog. Similar, but not quite like a brushed motor. A bonded rotor will spin almost freely. On the track there will be a noticed difference too.

I don't know much about the other systems, but I'm sure the same characteristics apply.
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:38 PM   #3
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with the EX noval can do you have to change endbell ,which has a different colour ring for easy Tech ,if you change rotor from bonded to Sinthered ??
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:53 PM   #4
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Jolly,

The colored ring is on the wiring endbell, not the front (SHAFT) side endbell.

The EX series motors already have the big bearings - and there is no need to change the endbell to use the sintered rotor in them (You can put the PRO endbell on them with the RIBS for a little additional cooling, but I haven't really checked to see how much those little grooves cool differently.

The part with the colored ring is NOT something you can replace.

The GOLD annodized center ring - can easily be replaced with the purple ring or one of the heat sinks also) You just remove the three screws and slide the front endbell off and slip that ring on or off)
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour View Post

The part with the colored ring is NOT something you can replace.
It's not just a bolt-on deal or anything...but you could definitely swap them if you wanted to. Just unsolder the windings from the board and the whole sensor board would come off.

You'd be a cheating dirtbag, but you could definitely do it if you were so inclined.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
Jolly,

The colored ring is on the wiring endbell, not the front (SHAFT) side endbell.

The EX series motors already have the big bearings - and there is no need to change the endbell to use the sintered rotor in them (You can put the PRO endbell on them with the RIBS for a little additional cooling, but I haven't really checked to see how much those little grooves cool differently.

The part with the colored ring is NOT something you can replace.

The GOLD annodized center ring - can easily be replaced with the purple ring or one of the heat sinks also) You just remove the three screws and slide the front endbell off and slip that ring on or off)
Exactly, if you're gonna mix 13.5's & brushed then you'll most likely need to make sure BL guys are using the bonded rotor(just like we do it here at my local track), & as SWTour said, it's EASY to feel the difference between the two even installed in the car, sintered rotors will make it have that cogging feel much likie brushed motors do, but you'll feel practically NOTHING with the bonded one, just rotates smoothly, so it's actually quite easy to tech. Just tell everyone after a race to bring it to the scoring table right after they finish, & give them all a spin or two. And as for changing anything else, I don't think it would matter, people can do it, but I SERIOUSLY doubt they see any benefit(my 13.5 is one of the earlier ones, no ribbed can, but it did come with the larger bearings & a sintered rotor, so I had to buy bonded ones to run it here, & it's every bit as good as any 13.5 Pro, of course they also have to get bonded rotos to run that, but the can doesn't give any advantage, so the EX motors should be the same, since they're the same motor just relabeled with the bonded rotor)......
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:23 PM   #7
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Novak's website has an updated motor spec comparison chart that shows the 13.5 EX has the SMALL/Std bearing and NOT the large bearing like the original 13.5 (purple ring) bonded rotor motor version...
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:12 AM   #8
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Thanks for the heads up guys

trying to get the UK club's to come onboard using BL in 27t class ,mainly coz that's all we use here indoors in the uk ,since nearly all tracks are to small to use MOD

so 27t class is really really big indoors & even @ the NON brca Series ie;;STCC SLRCC 27t is big (though 19t spec is reall close ,think 10.5

waiting for the BRCA to to sort it out is like pulling teeth

anyways have now got 3 club's in the south east of England looking or now using 13.5 BL with the 27T Brushed version's coz that's the only class that is being Raced BIGTIME indoors

rains to much for out door racing

thanks anyway
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:00 PM   #9
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The BRCA is not moving on BL equivalents in Stock and 19T because there aren't any. See this post (one of many in a huge thread) on the 12th thread - it's the last one on the page.

Put simply, there is no equvalence between motors - either the ratings of the BL motors, or to their BR 'cousins' - and there is never likely to be. Going BL for Stock/19T in the same heat is going to force everyone to get a BL to remain competitive, and then probably have to buy a number of BL motors to keep up over the next year or so.

Most Clubs who seem to successfully keep drivers wanting to use BL motors in the 'Stock' ranges put them in a separate heat. I am sure that you have the best of intentions, but please consider the unintended consequences of what you are doing by mixing the motors in the same heat. HTH
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:39 PM   #10
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slowerone ! your not stalking me are you


you never know Slowerone ,brushed 27t or 19t spec have had there day & need to be put to sleep
so BL could be the one & Mixing is not a bad thing atall

Also we have now 3 companys doing 13.5 BL setup's same as or even cheaper then brushed mtor equivilent now ,so roll on BL time i think

oh yes even Li-po ,better then poxy C-cells ,that includes the poxy EP cell red or black ring

running 1970's designed Brushed motors with 2000 battery tech is not going well hell even the 5cell/BL/ class we have in the UK is killing the c-cells to the point some racers are refreshing there 5 cell packs after a couple of rounds
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
The BRCA is not moving on BL equivalents in Stock and 19T because there aren't any. See this post (one of many in a huge thread) on the 12th thread - it's the last one on the page.

just looked at it

we all Know the 10.5 is 19t not 27t like it said in first setence

as for the 13.5 EX ,there a few over here that say the EX range is a lot closer then that post say's
pro version (sintered) is like 190 w 19t terrotory (JUST) & I KNOW ALL TO WELL THERE ARE A FEW 27T EPICS THAT PUSH INTO THE 19T SPEC POWER RANGE (thats them team motors you here about )


you also have 19t spec motors pushing into mod terrotory


bad motor to very good motor)
nothing is the same & it is spread further apart in Brushed 27t & 19t then it be in this BL 13.5 or 10.5 stuff

i bet that we get more consistency in BL 13.5 then we do in brushed 27t
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Old 07-07-2007, 09:42 PM   #12
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Can someone tell me the different characteristics withe the 3 Novak 13.5 motors. The sintered, the bonded and the ex sport. Would like to know the differences in temp, rpm etc.
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Old 07-07-2007, 11:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozer71 View Post
Can someone tell me the different characteristics withe the 3 Novak 13.5 motors. The sintered, the bonded and the ex sport. Would like to know the differences in temp, rpm etc.
Well, the sintered rotor makes the motor MUCH more heat tolerant, plus it gives it more torque & overall power(no debate there, with sinterd rotors it IS more powerful than any legal brushed 27 turn I've ever seen), & as such you can gear it almost as tall as you could ever want(At the Novak USTC race in Milwaukee back in Janurary, we were gearing it anywhere from a 5.0:1 FDR to 3.9:1 & NO ONE had any temperature problems, thing just kept pulling like a freight train). But with the bonded rotor, while it still can make a LITTLE more power than brushed stockers, you really can't gear it right to take advantage of it, because it will run MUCH hotter & if you push even a bit too hard it WILL overheat & do a thermal shutdown(I know this from personal experience, been using it in our local stock class with brushed stocks all year), & when geared on the edge it still shows good torque, but overall it runs practically IDENTICALLY to a good brushed stock(again I know from experience, as an example, I ran mine tonight & finished 6th overall, better than a fair number of brushed guys, but ALL of the top five ran brushed, & in fact I was the ONLY brushless powered car in the A Main, & if you watched us, you'd be VERY hard pressed to tell which car was mine by how it accelerated). It may not be a PERFECT match, but it's VERY close(but overall you do have to gear any 13.5 taller than you would a brushed stock, just depends on the rotor for figuring how far you can go). And about the EX motor, I can't say for sure since I don't have one, but if what I've read is correct, it should run EXACTLY the same as a non-Sintered 13.5, because it apparently is the exact same motor as the original 13.5, except I believe it has the same endbell & bearings as the others(so the sintered rotor should be a direct-fit upgrade when you wanna do it).....
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:32 AM   #14
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@grizbob

so if a couple of clubs allowed the EX 13.5 novaks, or the Dragon nosram Bonded motors or even the NEW lrp budget setup's to race in the same class as brushed 27t

there be no problem with comparison ,bonded motors are a fair equivilent to brushed 27t ???

not looking for a perfecr match coz there's no such thing
even 27t brushed motors are vastly different to each other aswell as 19t

BL will get a much closer match between unit's then brushed motors could ever get
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:35 AM   #15
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I have been running 13.5 pro at brentwood. (sintered) in a tc4 with older 3700's . granted i am probably not top 5 anyway and still working on car setup as well.
my speed is not far away from most others. so no great advantage. have not tried with really decent cells.
i think to insist that people only run bonded rotor is a bad road to take. asking for trouble. the idea of the ex series is to get your foot in the door of brushless, cheaper. the motor is then upgradeable to pro-spec (sintered) when your ready i.e. after your bonded rotor drops off in performance due to heat. the price of a sintered rotor will be less than a complete motor. so the financial outlay has been spread.
if you found yourself ballistic in comparison to the stock brigade the sportsman-like thing to do would be adjust gearing or batts to suit.
the advantage of the 13.5 brushless (sintered) is no skimming, heat issues,
if you need faster then there are plenty of faster motors and faster classes to run in!
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