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Old 07-12-2007, 01:53 PM   #121
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it would be great to have 10th scale pan cars popular again... RC10L was my very first car. and GTP bodies was very popular along with real GTP racing..
to me GTP bodies in stock or Mod is ideal..
I still have in my garage Andy's Jags and Nissans waiting to be painted.. here's a couple pics of my Pro10 bodies:
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Is it time again for 1/10th scale pan cars?-toyota-gt1-pro10.jpg   Is it time again for 1/10th scale pan cars?-nissan-gtp.jpg   Is it time again for 1/10th scale pan cars?-nissan-rk90.jpg  
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:57 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Kwik View Post
Up here in Speedmerchant country we have been running the speed spec cars with silver can 540 motors and 4-cells. This has been an absolutely amazing class for newcomers as it's cheap and easy to maintain and the level of speed is perfect for people to start with. The Speedmerchant cars are 190-200mm, we have been running body series type races with the field currently wearing a muscle car theme. It's pretty cool to see a bunch of cars you can identify with running on the track together, it's helped draw spectators into the hobby more than any other class on the track.

I think that if everyone got together and perhaps made some rules up to tailor bodies to motors and created real classes this could totally take off. My thoughts on the topic:

All classes run 4 cells on a 200mm chassis, this would keep it simple for people to start out and move through the classes.

Class 1: Entry Level
Silver can 540 motors only.
Realistic street bodies that new racers can identify with.

Examples:
http://hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies...4/7494_04m.jpg
http://hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies...IMG_4874km.jpg
http://hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies...435/911k3m.jpg

Class 2: Stock
ROAR legal stock motors only.
Realistic GT style bodies, new racers can still identify but they will also associate the body styles with the increased speeds.

Examples:
http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies/7046_01m.jpg
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/pics/mca236.jpg
http://www2.gpmd.com/image/p/pftc9201.jpg

Class 3: Modified
ROAR legal modified motors to include brushless.
GTP style bodies, again identifiable but with a much higher level of performance. This should give new racers something to strive for and they should look impressive on the track.

Examples:
http://www.prolineracing.com/products/images/1480.jpg
http://yokomousa.com/bodies/RR.jpg
http://www.serpent.com/image.php?ImageID=14769

Given a little time to catch on I honestly think you would see a lot of newer touring car racers making the move. Running a pan car is much easier and far less expensive than trying to manage a sedan these days. This would get people on the track with a higher level of performance and probably help keep them on the track.

Thoughts?

Nick
Nick, I love your idea.....especially since your Class 1 is Porsche Cup.. and we are promoting that series at Coral Springs race track...

What I like about your idea is the seamless progression through the ranks. I think the only problem will be the resistance from firmly established TC guys. Some will race what you propose simply because it is simple...some will complain because there is no equipment advantage that can be bought, you will have to actually out drive the field.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:26 PM   #123
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a quick list of ready-made kits currently available..

crc pantoura (narrow down the middle pack)
corally CCT & c10x (wide Saddle packs 6 cell)
hyperdrive SSE Pro 4500 (wide saddle pack 6 cell)
speedmerchant street spec (narrow 4 cell only)
Darkside I-force (adjustable down the middle pack)

Plus available conversions..
Powell Racing components PRC Max10 (chassis, top &bottom plates and chassis brace) (wide.. saddle pack 6 cell..What i own)

Powel Racing components wide conversion for pantoura.. (wide also down the middle stick pack)
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:39 PM   #124
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I love the Idea of the speedspec cars with bodys to match performance.

I looked through the speedmerchant store for the speedspec car and didnt see the kit listed. Yet when you click on the speedspec info page it says its always in stock.

Do you have to order it through an email?
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:17 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyrc View Post
a quick list of ready-made kits currently available..

crc pantoura (narrow down the middle pack)
corally CCT & c10x (wide Saddle packs 6 cell)
hyperdrive SSE Pro 4500 (wide saddle pack 6 cell)
speedmerchant street spec (narrow 4 cell only)
Darkside I-force (adjustable down the middle pack)

Plus available conversions..
Powell Racing components PRC Max10 (chassis, top &bottom plates and chassis brace) (wide.. saddle pack 6 cell..What i own)

Powel Racing components wide conversion for pantoura.. (wide also down the middle stick pack)
Thanks for putting the list together.
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Old 07-12-2007, 06:58 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Kwik View Post
Up here in Speedmerchant country we have been running the speed spec cars with silver can 540 motors and 4-cells. This has been an absolutely amazing class for newcomers as it's cheap and easy to maintain and the level of speed is perfect for people to start with. The Speedmerchant cars are 190-200mm, we have been running body series type races with the field currently wearing a muscle car theme. It's pretty cool to see a bunch of cars you can identify with running on the track together, it's helped draw spectators into the hobby more than any other class on the track.

I think that if everyone got together and perhaps made some rules up to tailor bodies to motors and created real classes this could totally take off. My thoughts on the topic:

All classes run 4 cells on a 200mm chassis, this would keep it simple for people to start out and move through the classes.

Class 1: Entry Level
Silver can 540 motors only.
Realistic street bodies that new racers can identify with.

Examples:
http://hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies...4/7494_04m.jpg
http://hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies...IMG_4874km.jpg
http://hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies...435/911k3m.jpg

Class 2: Stock
ROAR legal stock motors only.
Realistic GT style bodies, new racers can still identify but they will also associate the body styles with the increased speeds.

Examples:
http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/bodies/7046_01m.jpg
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/pics/mca236.jpg
http://www2.gpmd.com/image/p/pftc9201.jpg

Class 3: Modified
ROAR legal modified motors to include brushless.
GTP style bodies, again identifiable but with a much higher level of performance. This should give new racers something to strive for and they should look impressive on the track.

Examples:
http://www.prolineracing.com/products/images/1480.jpg
http://yokomousa.com/bodies/RR.jpg
http://www.serpent.com/image.php?ImageID=14769

Given a little time to catch on I honestly think you would see a lot of newer touring car racers making the move. Running a pan car is much easier and far less expensive than trying to manage a sedan these days. This would get people on the track with a higher level of performance and probably help keep them on the track.

Thoughts?

Nick
I run electric TC's. Last year I began to also try out pan cars, both 12th and 10th scale. On the 1/10 pan cars, I have driven and tested Speedmerchant car, CRC Pantoura, and AE10L2 cars. Yes, they are a bit different to drive than TC's. However, they do not compare to the beauty and handling charateristics of touring cars. After testing the pan cars, I still prefer the TC's. You have more options to tune and sep up the car and get it to work right much faster than pan cars(tamiya103GT included)

As far as cost: If was a mentor, I belive in staring with the best car, and equipment as budget allows. I do not belive in geting a cheap $300 RTR, and have that aspiring driver have to take the cheap car to a track, and them have the guy wait an hour to run cause his frequency is being run by others. The stock RTR tires are cheap and will not get good traction, shocks are cheap, as well as other components, which are a month will be upgraded anyways. So why start there? Go for the nicer pro level kit, and get your self a nice radio, brushless system, a couple of Lipos and charger, basic spares, and run w/ Spektrum at the track, and enjoy the freedom of Lipo and brushless, and enjoy setting up and tuning a nice pro touring car, which actualy has the right perfornace parts already to get you dialed with a few set up tweaks...

Again- running pan car vs TCs is basically the same cost. you still need a good radio, w/ spektrum preferred, and good receiver, servo, esc, motor and batteries, and charger for both types of cars. What changes is the chassis you run: 1/10 pan car will cost you between $130-200 depending on model, and a good TC will cost $350-450 depending on model. That's where the difference is.

In my experience, after running pan cars, I prefer primarily TCs. THey are more realistic and easier to set and get working right for me than dealing with pan cars. However, pan cars are nice, and abit harder to drive than TC's, and if you learn pan car drivin' you drive anything.
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:10 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
I run electric TC's. Last year I began to also try out pan cars, both 12th and 10th scale. On the 1/10 pan cars, I have driven and tested Speedmerchant car, CRC Pantoura, and AE10L2 cars. Yes, they are a bit different to drive than TC's. However, they do not compare to the beauty and handling charateristics of touring cars.
You must not have been testing on a good high bite track with a good setup. Pan cars in moderate conditions are not nearly as good as a TC but in high bite conditions they will out handle a TC and be faster given less drive train drag and less weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Again- running pan car vs TCs is basically the same cost. you still need a good radio, w/ spektrum preferred, and good receiver, servo, esc, motor and batteries, and charger for both types of cars. What changes is the chassis you run: 1/10 pan car will cost you between $130-200 depending on model, and a good TC will cost $350-450 depending on model. That's where the difference is.
Don't forget repair costs and wear and tear. A TC will break a lot more parts in a wreck then a pan car typically will. Not to mention the wear and tear a TC puts on motors and batteries in comparison to a pan car.
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:19 PM   #128
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What a joke of a post! Pan cars are the easiest form of rc car to maintain and run. Who wants to deal with the belts, pulleys and other junk in a touring car? The dif is easy to maintain... i cant believe what I just read.. Must be another teenie bopper who thinks their fast!! I can drive around most if not all, modified touring cars with all the gizmos's with a 1/10 pan car with and old stock motor and some old 2000 batteries anyday!! Just another kid like I said! Soon these kids will grow hair in places they didnt know would, and move on like the rest of them.... and more will come !!

Last edited by BananaWheels; 07-12-2007 at 07:21 PM. Reason: had too!! : )
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:32 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
You must not have been testing on a good high bite track with a good setup. Pan cars in moderate conditions are not nearly as good as a TC but in high bite conditions they will out handle a TC and be faster given less drive train drag and less weight.



Don't forget repair costs and wear and tear. A TC will break a lot more parts in a wreck then a pan car typically will. Not to mention the wear and tear a TC puts on motors and batteries in comparison to a pan car.
I tested and ran pan cars in very nice tracks. That's not the issue. I know how nice they can run. I have gotten to run very nicely. Yes, they are very fast, light, blah, blah...all of us who have driven them know that. What i'm referring to is the difference in how both cars run. Pan cars are fast if you set them up right, but they handle and drive differently than TC's. TC's are easier to drive...they are 4X4 for goodness sakes! You cant compare that to a rear drive car. Plus the 4 point independent suspension on TC's is more sophisticated and works nicer on TC's, FOR MY LIKING, than the side or 3-link pan car suspension and handling.

Repair and cost of maintance on pan cars is cheaper, especially if you are new driver and ram TC's into walls every lap. You will pay. But its a TC, it has more components, and more damage can be done. But its a pro TC kit! Not a simple pan car. Its 2 different chassis and style. You cant compare a go cart and a F1 car. You get what you pay for. Can you get a Karting car to run faster or as fast as 350Z- yes...but you cant compare the rides...its a matter of preference. One guy wants to hop and pop all around and shake around in the Karting car, while the other rides in a 350Z and enjoys it just as much.

Again folks, I was talking for my liking and preferences after my personal experience with both types of chassis. Hope you understand. Dont get me wrong...my CRC Pantoura can whip around tracks as fast as if not faster than my TC or other good nitro drivers...its just handles crazy sharp and fly down the straights...but for me- i prefer TC's...they are a bit smoother for me, and I like the feel of TC's over the driving feel of Pan cars.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:39 PM   #130
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Im glad he like TC's!! Good thing you got that off your chest.. Good Luck!
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:48 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by BananaWheels View Post
What a joke of a post! Pan cars are the easiest form of rc car to maintain and run. Who wants to deal with the belts, pulleys and other junk in a touring car? The dif is easy to maintain... i cant believe what I just read.. Must be another teenie bopper who thinks their fast!! I can drive around most if not all, modified touring cars with all the gizmos's with a 1/10 pan car with and old stock motor and some old 2000 batteries anyday!! Just another kid like I said! Soon these kids will grow hair in places they didnt know would, and move on like the rest of them.... and more will come !!
Listen here youngen: If you're lazy ass dont want to deal with TC's or your IQ doesnt allow you learn how to work them...dont touch them. They are not for you. Get something simpler your cerebrum can assimilate. No once did I say that TC's are better than pan cars, or other wise, or that's TC is easier or cheaper to run/maintain. I was refering to my personal findings and preferences after spending a few years running both, every day, for hours a day. You think you're some genius by stating that a pan car diff is easy to maintain? Nah, you gottan be kidding me! Fool! And, I 'll pay for your ticket and stay, to come over here and try and beat my TC with a pan car and stock motor and old 2000 cells. Lets put some money on that: $500. You will not beat a good driver with a mod TC with that kind of power on a pan car- its not realistic. You gotta be a very good driver and you need more power- maybe with a Novak 5800SS pro and Lipo pack...I know...I have done it with my pan car. I have beaten fast nitro drivers and EP TC drivers with my CRC Pantoura...to beat a good nitro driver(state level at least) you will need more than 19T motor and 7.4 Lipo.

I like the pan cars...I hope they come back seriusly. I will drive them if we get classes...they are fun and cheap...but I prefer my expensive TC and what it offers and how it handles and drives over a pan car. Its my personal opinion. You like pan cars better- that's great...good for you. As long as you enjoy and have fun
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:08 PM   #132
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I tested and ran pan cars in very nice tracks. That's not the issue. I know how nice they can run. I have gotten to run very nicely. Yes, they are very fast, light, blah, blah...all of us who have driven them know that. What i'm referring to is the difference in how both cars run. Pan cars are fast if you set them up right, but they handle and drive differently than TC's. TC's are easier to drive...they are 4X4 for goodness sakes! You cant compare that to a rear drive car. Plus the 4 point independent suspension on TC's is more sophisticated and works nicer on TC's, FOR MY LIKING, than the side or 3-link pan car suspension and handling.
True pan cars and TCs handle differently. Pan cars are much more precise and require you to be a smooth driver to drive well. TCs are much easier to drive because the 4wd makes up for a lot of things. You compared them yourself so I am just responding to that comparison. TCs do have a more complex suspension but that is not always better. More complexity leads to more points of failure, more points of slop, and a more complicated setup. Heck if you want a really complex suspension look at a Tamiya F201 with it's cantilever suspension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Repair and cost of maintance on pan cars is cheaper, especially if you are new driver and ram TC's into walls every lap. You will pay. But its a TC, it has more components, and more damage can be done. But its a pro TC kit! Not a simple pan car. Its 2 different chassis and style. You cant compare a go cart and a F1 car. You get what you pay for. Can you get a Karting car to run faster or as fast as 350Z- yes...but you cant compare the rides...its a matter of preference. One guy wants to hop and pop all around and shake around in the Karting car, while the other rides in a 350Z and enjoys it just as much.
You brought up the cost comparison. In doing so you must consider the total cost of racing one class VS racing the other. Ok now if a TC kit is a pro and a pan car kit was simple...which was the pro when there was no TCs? Pan cars may have a less complex suspension but there is nothing simple about them. As you point out they are more difficult to drive. Because they are so quick and responsive it is that much more critical to get the right driving line through a corner. Pan cars aren't so simple as they look either. Every small adjustment you make on the car has much more of an effect then they do on a TC.

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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Again folks, I was talking for my liking and preferences after my personal experience with both types of chassis. Hope you understand. Dont get me wrong...my CRC Pantoura can whip around tracks as fast as if not faster than my TC or other good nitro drivers...its just handles crazy sharp and fly down the straights...but for me- i prefer TC's...they are a bit smoother for me, and I like the feel of TC's over the driving feel of Pan cars.
And that's cool that you enjoy TCs more then pan cars. However you can't go around implying that a TC's "beauty and handling charateristicts" are better then that of a pan car and not expect a rebuttal since by race standards the handling characteristics of a pan car on a high bite track are better then that of a TC. As for beauty I find pan cars much more beautiful as they look much more like a pure bred racing machine where a TC looks like something you'd see driving down the freeway...just gussied up a bit. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:11 PM   #133
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Again with the "simple" pan cars...look at the number of hours any top driver puts into properly setting up a pan car vs the number of hours they put into setting up a TC and you'd be surprised at how close they are. I usually end up putting more time into setting up a pan car to race well then I do for a TC and do equally well with both. Pan cars may look simple...but they really are not.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:42 PM   #134
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Pan cars are cheaper in the long run. MY T2 Xray has well has 27 replacable bearings + Diff balls!!!! My Darkside Mx2 1/12th pan car has 8 bearings and 12 diff balls. That should be a clue when trying to trouble shoot drive train issue that Pan Cars would be easier to work on and cheaper to keep up. If you stay out of the oval racer mindset that I haffta have this and I haffta have that, 1/10 pan cars will be cheaper.

What I would like is the old style independant front suspension arms with sway bars and one center shock. The whole king pin set-up really is killing the car. Oval racers dump $200 in just the front end alone for kingpins, spring sets, castor blocks, stickion lubes, lowered arms, arm shim sets, spindles, pin shim sets, ect. Just give me Two beefy a-arms, a leak free shock and a few springs and I am ready to race.

Common Sense, since there is no real worlds running for the 1/10 pan cars now would be the time to engineer the car back to way it was ment to be, FAST and EASY.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:12 PM   #135
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10th sc pan cars will give you some of the closest racing with the least amount of support time between races of any cars. The 12th sc cars are too squirrly.

I want to run these with brushless motors with LiPo batteries, say, 10 minute heats and mains and GTP bodies. Which is very do-able these days.

Lets bring them back !!
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