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Old 01-02-2008, 01:45 PM   #136
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Im on board with anything that involves bringing brushless class to the Nats. The most asked question Im getting (concerning the Nats) is "Can we run Brushless?"

At our last weekly races of the season out of 36 cars only 3 had a brushed motor in them, and those were Tamiya TT-01's.

and you will have this, Quinton...
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:46 PM   #137
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Why run a 15turn against a 10.5, have you found the 15turn to be the equivalent of the 10.5?
That is just an example. I think we all can agree that a 10.5 is faster than a 19T and a 13.5 is faster than a 27T. If the motors are going to be run together, a better equivalency should be established. I just pulled 15T out of a hat.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:49 PM   #138
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So, your saying a 10.5 is an equal comparison to a 15T brushed?

If we were to say at a national: "No handouts provided. Racer has option of running any ROAR approved 15 turn motor or any ROAR approved 10.5 brushless motor"

this would work with you guys?
You would have to calculate the equivalency, but why not? The brushed motor will already be at a disadvantage from a technical perspective (magnets).

I was actually thinking a 15T version of a 19T spec motors. But a hand wound modified 15T (or whatever is decided upon) would be a more realistic allowance.

I am just throwing out ideas here so dont' take this as set in stone. But why not allow a brushged motor to be slightly faster than its BL equivalent? After all, the brushed driver has to spend more time working on his motors and less on his set-ups so why not give him a slight advantage? :-)
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:52 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
So, your saying a 10.5 is an equal comparison to a 15T brushed?

If we were to say at a national: "No handouts provided. Racer has option of running any ROAR approved 15 turn motor or any ROAR approved 10.5 brushless motor"

this would work with you guys?
Yes, if ROAR decides in fact 15t is the equivalent to 10.5 brushless. The tough part of that is going to be deciding what is the equivalent...
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:53 PM   #140
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Same with 13.5 I feel 13.5 is equal to say a 20T...
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:58 PM   #141
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Hey, what about us old people with little or no skills?

What class is left for us?
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:58 PM   #142
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Here's some more food for thought. It's my opinion that brushed motors like the 27t and 19t spec motors have a pretty finite gearing window. Where going much below or above the window quickly decreases the performance. Now with brushless that gearing window is much larger. If you gear a 13.5 motor at say 7.0 FDR for example, it's pretty close to a 27t. But you can take that same 13.5 motor and gear it at a 5.0 FDR and now it's like a 20t. That to me is really the tough part about coming up with a brushless equivalent to brushed.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:59 PM   #143
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Oh, I'm not comfortable in ROAR making any decision as to what is equivalent to what..... thats what class committee's are for and why we have experts on board to give advice. To think any one person on the ROAR excom is an expert in ALL things technical.. is silly.... ROAR must reach out and ask what you guys think..... racers and professional MFG's alike.

But, if somebody like Rick Hohwart tells ROAR that a 15t (pulling out of same hat.. still not set in stone) is equivalient to a 10.5 brushless, yep, I'll go that route. But.... I don't much like giving an advantage to one guy because he has to spend more time cutting coms and changing brushes.... choices.. choices.... LOL

I'm all open to try new things in racing... lets see what happens.. we can always change it the next year if necessary. People want to have access to the newest in technology so lets do what the people want.....
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:02 PM   #144
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There must be a simple answer to what a BL = Brush motor....

Say.... take a 13.5 run it on a dyno then run a 19 turn on the same dyno with the exact same settings.....

I dunno but there has to be a simple solution...
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:07 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
But why not allow a brushged motor to be slightly faster than its BL equivalent? After all, the brushed driver has to spend more time working on his motors and less on his set-ups so why not give him a slight advantage? :-)
I would have figured a 17x1 would be closer to the performance of most of the 10.5 motors, but a 15x1 could be a decent choice too.

From my side of the fence, the only opposition I can see come from any Brushed motor being given any 'performance advantage' over a B/L is the complaints from the NON-MOTOR Building guys that they can NEVER build a motor that would run with a FACTORY TEAM motor, so that always leaves them with the feeling (real or unreal) at being at a disadvantage...

Where a lot of guys right now feel in the B/L world they don't have that issue...(again, real or unreal) ...perception plans a LARGE part.

BTW - Great Discusson and glad to see some of the topics being brought out
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:15 PM   #146
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If its any help to you, my local club runs 27t and 13.5, most of the pro's will hang out in 13.5 and leave the rookies to their 27t racing.

As you progress in racing chances are you will make the switch.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:17 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
There must be a simple answer to what a BL = Brush motor....

Say.... take a 13.5 run it on a dyno then run a 19 turn on the same dyno with the exact same settings.....

I dunno but there has to be a simple solution...
The thing is,if u are succesfull,and came up with an equvilant brushless to brushed,lets say for an e.g 10.5 and 19 turn,and u allow them to run together.u will be killing the brushed motors.who wants to spend time cutting comms and all that other things,when u can run hassle free motors that have the same speed.
my self i dont mind that hapenning,but it was just an opinion to mention
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:18 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
From my side of the fence, the only opposition I can see come from any Brushed motor being given any 'performance advantage' over a B/L is the complaints from the NON-MOTOR Building guys that they can NEVER build a motor that would run with a FACTORY TEAM motor, so that always leaves them with the feeling (real or unreal) at being at a disadvantage...
I was just joking because the fact that you do not have to spend time working on your motors is cited as an advantage when using brushless.
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:18 PM   #149
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How about this.... Masters are sent to Carousel....


Just solves the problem all togther...
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:20 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by trackpower View Post
The thing is,if u are succesfull,and came up with an equvilant brushless to brushed,lets say for an e.g 10.5 and 19 turn,and u allow them to run together.u will be killing the brushed motors.who wants to spend time cutting comms and all that other things,when u can run hassle free motors that have the same speed.
my self i dont mind that hapenning,but it was just an opinion to mention
I always wonder how things would be different with BL if they were slightly slower than their brushed equivalent rather than slightly faster. How many people would opt for less maintenance and cost at the expense of speed.

Novak was smart.
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