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Old 07-02-2007, 11:15 AM   #16
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Aha...ha.....HA.
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:54 AM   #17
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So I guess a small amount of research before jumping into brushless is too much to ask? All it takes is looking at the data, reading posts about comparing brushed to brushless (there are hundreds on here,) and just maybe a little for-knowledge of the systems and their characteristics.

No, we definitely don't want you to have to do any research or anything....
I did the research. Novak says their 13.5 is equal to 27t burshed, LRP says their 13.5 is equal to 23t brushed, and their 15.5 is equal to 27t brushed. If the MFGs cant agree on what which turn motor is equal to what turn motor stock, how is the sanctioning body going to decide on what motor is legal in stock racing?

Until a real decision is made, sanctioning bodies and professionally produced races will not decide what the standard will be. Either the motors will have to be phased into regular racing, or everybody will have to make the costly switch to brushless all at once if they want to race a national level event. Neither of which will be a popular decision.

Because this decision has not been made, I will continue to bolt in brushed motors and race them. There is no reason for me to get used to brushless motors until the large events make the switch. BTW, it takes all of 5 minutes to cut and re-brush a motor...
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:57 AM   #18
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I did the research. Novak says their 13.5 is equal to 27t burshed, LRP says their 13.5 is equal to 23t brushed, and their 15.5 is equal to 27t brushed. If the MFGs cant agree on what which turn motor is equal to what turn motor stock, how is the sanctioning body going to decide on what motor is legal in stock racing?

Until a real decision is made, sanctioning bodies and professionally produced races will not decide what the standard will be. Either the motors will have to be phased into regular racing, or everybody will have to make the costly switch to brushless all at once if they want to race a national level event. Neither of which will be a popular decision.

Because this decision has not been made, I will continue to bolt in brushed motors and race them. There is no reason for me to get used to brushless motors until the large events make the switch. BTW, it takes all of 5 minutes to cut and re-brush a motor...
You go Timmay, I am with you bro.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:24 PM   #19
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If you have a bunch of guys wanting to run them in your area, how friggin hard is it to say "let's have a 13.5 brushless class"?? You and your cronies buy motors and have a great time racing and figure it all out for yourselves how fast they are. A sintered 10.5 is as good as a top notch 19T. A 13.5 sintered is a blistering, MIGHT be cheating, 27T. Run these motors one race day, and that "only 5 minutes rebuild" will really start to suck. Save the brushed stuff for those few big races. Week in and week out..... you'll just have to run one to get it.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:35 PM   #20
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Novaks 13.5 pro is only about .3's faster than a good blue printed Co 27T. I'd say its close enough. But I do have to agree the KV ratings can be confusing, Castle does happen to give motor equivelents, Ex: 5700Kv= 9T brushed, Well atleast thats what is says on the box. Why LRP would come out with a 13.5 and say its closer to a 23T is beyond me, maybe since 23T is the stock motor of choice overseas, is the market they want to reach. I'm hoping Bob Novak is working with ROAR and others to get some sort of stock BL rules in place by next year, right now it does seem like a wild turkey shoot.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:47 PM   #21
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You cant really compare brushed to brushless. You will have roughly equivalent lap times on certain tracks with say a 19T/10.5 or 27T/13.5 but they just arent the same. How you get the same lap times are different (like how a 19T electric and nitro car can get the same lap times but in very different ways). Then depending on the track the brushed might still be faster but generally the brushless is faster. The only thing you really need to know is what your club allows for brushless (most only allow the Novak) and if it is more then just the Novak pick your favorite of whatever is allowed by your club.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:55 PM   #22
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Save the brushed stuff for those few big races. Week in and week out..... you'll just have to run one to get it.

What is the point of prepping for a race with something you are not going to be able to use?
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:59 PM   #23
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I like to play this game where I watch the brush holdouts make new excuses, and try to spin new reasons why their busted old tech should stick around. This thread has been full of 'em, thanks for the laughs, guys. It's not often RCTech brings a genuine LOL.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:03 PM   #24
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whats more confusing is the waiting for the release of the Tekin brushless ESC!!!!

2 weeks is the norm
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:07 PM   #25
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2 weeks is the norm
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:29 PM   #26
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Novaks 13.5 pro is only about .3's faster than a good blue printed Co 27T. I'd say its close enough. But I do have to agree the KV ratings can be confusing, Castle does happen to give motor equivelents, Ex: 5700Kv= 9T brushed, Well atleast thats what is says on the box. Why LRP would come out with a 13.5 and say its closer to a 23T is beyond me, maybe since 23T is the stock motor of choice overseas, is the market they want to reach. I'm hoping Bob Novak is working with ROAR and others to get some sort of stock BL rules in place by next year, right now it does seem like a wild turkey shoot.
.3 of a second? That's huge. That is almost the difference in lap times between 19t and stock 27T. At a race with experienced drivers, .5 is the difference between stock and 19t and on a small track that is even smaller difference. At the Reedy Race, the difference between first run and second run tires was about .3 seconds, and if you ran second run tires against a guy who ran first run and both drivers put in clean runs, it wasn't even close.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:30 PM   #27
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2 weeks is the norm
Hey now Mr. Jolly....

I still don't see how people can think it's so confusing, a 13.5 class is a 13.5 class. Period. Just like a 27T class is a 27T class. No two motors are the same and you will always have guys that are a little faster than others due to the manufacturing process of the motor, how or if, they tuned it, blah blah.

Everyone acts as if this brushless business is some kind of alien language. It's a different system and just like everyone HAS to have a 27T in the 27T class, you run the 13.5 in the 13.5 class, etc.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:31 PM   #28
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I did the research. Novak says their 13.5 is equal to 27t burshed, LRP says their 13.5 is equal to 23t brushed, and their 15.5 is equal to 27t brushed. If the MFGs cant agree on what which turn motor is equal to what turn motor stock, how is the sanctioning body going to decide on what motor is legal in stock racing?

Until a real decision is made, sanctioning bodies and professionally produced races will not decide what the standard will be. Either the motors will have to be phased into regular racing, or everybody will have to make the costly switch to brushless all at once if they want to race a national level event. Neither of which will be a popular decision.

Because this decision has not been made, I will continue to bolt in brushed motors and race them. There is no reason for me to get used to brushless motors until the large events make the switch. BTW, it takes all of 5 minutes to cut and re-brush a motor...
Novak never said they were equal, only similar in lap times. BL and Brushed will never be equal, it is not possible. Torque, drop off, rpm, etc., all have characteristics to each type. You can get in the ballpark and even that is relative, but it will never be equal.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:41 PM   #29
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I like to play this game where I watch the brush holdouts make new excuses, and try to spin new reasons why their busted old tech should stick around. This thread has been full of 'em, thanks for the laughs, guys. It's not often RCTech brings a genuine LOL.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:43 PM   #30
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Novaks 13.5 pro is only about .3's faster than a good blue printed Co 27T.
Depends on the track and the driver. In some cases the c027 might even be faster.
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