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Old 07-02-2007, 06:11 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
look at in a beginner`s eyes and everything will make more sense...

They have to decide if its worth spending a lot of time and money to win a stock car race ....
how much time and money is invested in winning a mod car race??? the difference is.............

using your logic, i know i will never be as good as bridgewater, scott, travis, peter, etc, etc, etc, guess i should just sell all the stuff now.
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:31 AM   #62
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First it was sponsored guys get all the good motors and batteries

EA
Are you saying thats not the case? I would beg to differ. I agree they know how to drive better but I would guarentee when you find a top level motor you are giving it to someone who drives for you. Why wouldnt you?
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:38 AM   #63
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Are you saying thats not the case? I would beg to differ. I agree they know how to drive better but I would guarentee when you find a top level motor you are giving it to someone who drives for you. Why wouldnt you?
Yes I am saying that's not the case. I guarantee you that when I build motors here I do NOT cherry pick the "Good" ones out for my drivers....In fact I dont mark them or anything. The ONLY ones that get marked are the ones that do not meet my standard's. Those go in a different place and do NOT get sold. I never look at the dyno sheets when I send out a motor unless someone specifies what class its for. Then I will look for one that fits their application. And all of this is based on IF, and its a big big IF, I have motors that are built in stock. 95% of the time I do not have the motor's built as I build them when they are ordered. If someone orders 4 motors I build 4 motors and unless one is a dud those are the 4 motors they get. Same for Team guys, hobbyshops, distributors, etc.

All you guys have this perception about what a "Team Guy" gets and its completely clouded. You guys need to worry about how to keep cost down, racers interested, and race crowds up instead of worrying about what a "team" driver gets for motors or batteries. With todays quality I can guarantee you that your getting as good or better in some cases if you order from my site or buy it in a shop!!

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Old 07-02-2007, 11:18 AM   #64
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Default For the experience racer that needs the eyes of a beginner

Awfully hard to sell beginner a r/c car that he will never win with because there`s a experience racer with a motor tuner & sponsorship winning every stock club race in sight....

Winning for a beginner is most important !!!


No win`s mean`s no improvement ...

No improvement mean`s they quit, for they have nothing to show for all their effort spent ....
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:33 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
All you guys have this perception about what a "Team Guy" gets and its completely clouded. You guys need to worry about how to keep cost down, racers interested, and race crowds up instead of worrying about what a "team" driver gets for motors or batteries. With todays quality I can guarantee you that your getting as good or better in some cases if you order from my site or buy it in a shop!!

EA
i believe it.. there was a motor company that used to even advertise that if you buy a motor from them,that you could swap it with a motor right out of a team drivers stash at a race if you thought it was faster.. the quality on most stuff these days is good enough that one or two bobbles or bad corners and top equipment would make no difference..
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:39 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Awfully hard to sell beginner a r/c car that he will never win with because there`s a experience racer with a motor tuner & sponsorship winning every stock club race in sight....

Winning for a beginner is most important !!!


No win`s mean`s no improvement ...

No improvement mean`s they quit, for they have nothing to show for all their effort spent ....

thats because they have a quitters heart, not a competitors heart.

(i'm just trying to figure out how that beginner knows whos winning what race at every club race in sight and how long the winners been racing and sponsored?)

btw, shouldn't the beginner have to improve to actually win a race, and why in the world is your race director starting the beginner off in the stock class INSTEAD OF NOVICE

when the RD says, time to move up, THEN its time. you don't own the track and don't any investment on the line, if the track owner doesn't have a problem then why are you creating on.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:11 PM   #67
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Instead of "banning" factory drivers from any class doesn't it make sense to take the prestige out of the class that you don't want them in.

If we made an entry level class that people could actually control the cars in it would be a good step foreward. A starting point might be the 17.5 motor that Novak's working on. Too slow for an experienced racer and fast enough for a new racer to learn how to drive without destroying their car every run.

Create more of a split in speed between the classes and you'll bring more people into the faster classes that shouldn't be in the slower ones.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:16 PM   #68
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Instead of "banning" factory drivers from any class doesn't it make sense to take the prestige out of the class that you don't want them in.

If we made an entry level class that people could actually control the cars in it would be a good step foreward. A starting point might be the 17.5 motor that Novak's working on. Too slow for an experienced racer and fast enough for a new racer to learn how to drive without destroying their car every run.

Create more of a split in speed between the classes and you'll bring more people into the faster classes that shouldn't be in the slower ones.
+1!! And call this class Novice or Rookie!!

EA
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:33 PM   #69
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i send my team drivers raw motors and a hanfull of brushes and springs

they hate it...lol my theory is even tho you are sponsored you should know how to build a motor
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:08 PM   #70
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What if you have only 1 or 2 new guys showing up, do you put them in the Novice class? When there are only two of them running? To them it might be a boring class just because he is racing against himself and maybe 1 or 2 other person. New blood just doesn't show up that often anymore.

I always though sponsored driver are there to show case their sponsor's product. They are beating us because they can out drive us even with our own car, not because their equipment is made out from alien technology. Granted, they get new and fresh stuff often that the non-sponsored guy can't keep up with. But when ever you add word "Racing" and "Speed", it is never cheap. Its just a matter of how expensive and how competitive you want to get within your own budget.

I do hope people enjoy this hobby because it is FUN for them.

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Old 07-02-2007, 04:33 PM   #71
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they used to call it "spec" racing.. it was great..
No...spec racing took it a step further and only allowed 1 brand/model chassis, spec tire, and whatever else they wanted to regulate. There's a reason spec classes seldom last...while in concept they may be great, even playing field and all, in actual application people get bored with it fast because they can't "tweak" their cars or customize them in the least. People in general don't like to be restricted.
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:59 PM   #72
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Manufacturer's should not have to be prevented from sponsoring stock drivers. They should choose not to do it.

I agree.

This is an impossible rule to police. If a driver never tells that he is sponsored... Do we run background checks? Put a guy in front of his house to see if packages come from an R/C company?

I definitely believe that sponsored racers in the Stock class is not a good thing. But, there are always exceptions. If the R/C companies can finally figure out that selling their stuff at 50% to a bunch of racers actually REDUCES their income because the number of racers is dwindling... we might see some changes.


On the ROAR front, changing Stock rules so the class is too slow for these drivers will help, but not eliminate, the problem. We've always had sandbaggers and cherry pickers, but there weren't that many, especially compared to what we have now.
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:05 AM   #73
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+1!! And call this class Novice or Rookie!!

EA
I don't know if it's a great idea to call it Novice or Rookie. Aoizip makes a good point with the one or two racers deal. We need a class that brings in new people and keeps the guys that are there as a hobby. This would include some of the old timers that just want to run and the new guys.

I just did a quick Google to see what some of the full size series are doing. UMP for instance has established two new classes based on what the local (mostly southern) tracks have started. UMP calls them Factory stock and Four-Cylinder. Obviously these names don't really fit RC bit one of the classes that is popular in the South is called "Hobby Stock". I kinda like it and the name doesn't push away some of the guys that just want close racing with their friends.
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:08 PM   #74
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OK......I get it
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Old 07-03-2007, 01:33 PM   #75
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Are you saying thats not the case? I would beg to differ. I agree they know how to drive better but I would guarentee when you find a top level motor you are giving it to someone who drives for you. Why wouldnt you?
a sponsored guy weighing in here: The best batteries most matchers get in a reserved for their MOD drivers. I've been to races where the STORE has had better cells than the stock team guys do in the pits.

Motors: ANYBODY can build a competitive stock motor, if they are willing to spend the time doing it. Hell, there's an issue of XRC with an article from EA where he details STEP BY FRICKIN' STEP how to build a fast stocker. What more do you guys want? And by the way, most motor sponsors aren't sending "awesome" stockers out to their team drivers. Most of 'em put the best of the best on the shelf for you to buy, because their team guys could trade you motors and still beat you!! It's worth more to them to have an average guy jump on the boards and RAVE about their product than to have some team guy burn one up at a club race.
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