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Old 07-01-2007, 09:21 PM   #46
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First it was sponsored guys get all the good motors and batteries....now its already starting they get better BL motors.....Fact is Sponsored guys are fast because they KNOW how to set up a car and how to drive.....Its not because they have better equipment as everyone likes to bitch, moan and cry!! When everyone grows up and realizes this then maybe they will learn to pay attention to their cars and practice so they can be fast too. You guys keep creating classes for everyone under the sun and you wont get any faster or better racing the same guys every week.....and before you say it EVERYONE wants to get faster and better and not beat the walls down every week....so dont give me the "We just want to have fun".....Getting faster and better is the fun part of racing and competition.


EA
I agree with this. I let a full factory guy run my car and he was doing consistant lap times one second faster than my fast lap. He didn't change anything. Fast guys are fast. He earns his sponsorships because he helps people and they want to run his products.

Sponsorships are designed to sell products. They are company reps in all different areas. Drivers are there to help, not give everything away for free.

As a traveling individual, some tracks definately have things better than others. Racer's attitudes vary greatly. Some tracks I don't even want to practice at. Everyone is complaining about everything. Just be thankful for the track you do have. Run the classes that are normal is most places and stop complaining when your mut classes aren't allowed at a national event. If you would have been practicing with what you race, you might do a little better.

Luckily now, I love the track I am near and can't spend enough time there. I'm practicing non-stop and looking forward to the IIC. Which I am only going for fun. I don't care how well I do, I'm just gonna have a good time. Which is what this hobby is supposed to be about.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:21 PM   #47
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well, i didn't read all of the posts but heres my story, i have a "discount" sponsorship from yokomo. at my local on road track i used to run GT3 as in silver can with the BD. others also used top the line brands of chassis in this class,others used entry level chassis, it was the biggest class, it was the funnest class, i gave many hours of help to newbies, i gave away tires, batteries, old bodies, and help them understand throttle control etc, etc, etc. but if i understand you guys right i should lot be allowed to run this class or stock? is this correct?

i also was the first to get a 13.5 novak brushless, and start that class, now several drivers are running the 13.5 novak motor and the class is growing and becoming very popular, but i guess being "sponsored" i should not have been allowed to do that. isn't the point of sponsored drivers to help sell product, well sorry to say i'm a failure, i think i probably have the only yokomo in the area, maybe even the state. however, all these new guys you people keep talking about we need to grow the hobby/sport they certainly do like the novak stuff i brought to the track. (oh and charlie at the 24hr enduro helped to) oh wait that was a club race, should he even been allowed to be there?

but then again, when you said sponsered maybe you meant to say, full factory drivers.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:46 PM   #48
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At the club level, provided they are running the same product anyone can buy over the counter, sure, why not. Two reasons, A, if he's a decent guy he's going to help other racers. B, the way things are going, one warm body may make the difference on even having a class to run.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:50 PM   #49
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At the club level, provided they are running the same product anyone can buy over the counter, sure, why not. Two reasons, A, if he's a decent guy he's going to help other racers. B, the way things are going, one warm body may make the difference on even having a class to run.
look at in a beginner`s eyes and everything will make more sense...

They have to decide if its worth spending a lot of time and money to win a stock car race ....
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:59 PM   #50
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UN4Racing....my post isnt directed as you neccessarliy....I just quoted you. And after reading the rest of your post I agree with the last part about making guys move up as they gain experience and get faster.....I made my post before reading that part!! LOL.

But I still say that the "Pro" or sponsored guys should be allowed to run their own Expert or Pro 13.5 class at the club level.

EA
Well then maybe that could be the privateer class they want to beat the pros and have the dough.. I'm just trying to find a way to promote a class to stop the bickering on the should or shouldn't. That the club level bashers that don't stand a chance one way or the other. This will give them a class of there own. And the sponsored guys a class of there own. And if any one enters that class they cant say its sponsored guys in the wrong class.
Just trying to make a place for the average racer.
As far as club racing it works the same. You think its because its no fun or to expensive but I think its the competition level. Thats what drives new guys away. People get tired of trying, thats when the fun goes out the door.
I say enforce pro level racers to there speed of racing. If there racing some where that theres no competition for them then yes they have to practice. By all means run with the puppy dogs. Its club racing. But when that guy goes to the big show whats he run.?
Your saying because theres no class at his club level he should be allowed to run stock at a nat'l level. Maybe there really isn't an answer to the Q.? But its a formula to start with.
If I recall it was the formula years ago that we have some how veered away from. Its no longer enforced.
I've out classed and been out classed we all know the difference.
I've been racing for 11+ years.
A racer has to man up and run his level.

An observation is that if you were to go to a track just to watch.?
What race would get you pumped up to get into it. Stock or Mod.?
And you would start out in stock in a hope to run a mod.
Now days you go to the track and its all stock. Wheres the inspiration and integrity of what its about.

Any how so you know you have my respect racer to racer. Man to man just debating the Q. We are all brothers in this hobby. And I hope you all find the answer. The nice thing about RC tech is I get a chance to be heard. If you can stand to read a long post.?
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:18 PM   #51
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UN,

Yes I agree with everything you are saying about club racing and such. A lot of guys use the National's as an argument as well. Do you think Stock should be a beginner's class at a national as well? In MY opinion it should not be at a National type event. It should be open to anyone that wants to run it.....Its to find out who is THE best racer in that class for a National Title.

I think a lot of clubs/local tracks are missing out by not having some sort of beginners or rookie class for the newer racers. Its where I started years ago....it was called Novice class. I think everyone can benefit from starting there for a few reasons. One is you are on the same "level" as everyone else. Two is when you are racing that class it gives the more experienced or "Pro" drivers a chance to help out the rookies or Novice racers...something a lot of Pro guys forget to do but a lot of them are to be commended for what they do as well!! Its what the Pro guys are supposed to be doing be it at a club race or a National event. Paul Lemiux is one that stands out above everyone else. I always hear stories of him at Trackside during the week just hanging out and taking turns driving others cars and helping them/showing them what they need to do or change....thats what keeps the new guys in racing and gets them excited when one of the WORLDS best driver's pics his car up, drives it and then teaches him something....there's not better feeling in the world to a newer driver than to feel that!!

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Old 07-01-2007, 10:37 PM   #52
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UN,

Yes I agree with everything you are saying about club racing and such. A lot of guys use the National's as an argument as well. Do you think Stock should be a beginner's class at a national as well? In MY opinion it should not be at a National type event. It should be open to anyone that wants to run it.....Its to find out who is THE best racer in that class for a National Title.

I think a lot of clubs/local tracks are missing out by not having some sort of beginners or rookie class for the newer racers. Its where I started years ago....it was called Novice class. I think everyone can benefit from starting there for a few reasons. One is you are on the same "level" as everyone else. Two is when you are racing that class it gives the more experienced or "Pro" drivers a chance to help out the rookies or Novice racers...something a lot of Pro guys forget to do but a lot of them are to be commended for what they do as well!! Its what the Pro guys are supposed to be doing be it at a club race or a National event. Paul Lemiux is one that stands out above everyone else. I always hear stories of him at Trackside during the week just hanging out and taking turns driving others cars and helping them/showing them what they need to do or change....thats what keeps the new guys in racing and gets them excited when one of the WORLDS best driver's pics his car up, drives it and then teaches him something....there's not better feeling in the world to a newer driver than to feel that!!

EA
Sponsored Stock on a nat'l level.?????????????????
Hmmm well. Uhm.????????

I think stock should be the most even playing field known to the event or rule of racing.
Not just on skill level but afford ability level as well.
mix factory backing with over the counter wallet backing and you will not get far with that in the future. I think.

Stock used to be designed to make you want to step up. Not out.

If a bash racer or club racer or a just get out with the guys and hang out racers don't feel they have a chance they will not show after a race or two.

And they will end up running off road. Or bashing.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:47 PM   #53
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Sponsored Stock on a nat'l level.?????????????????
Hmmm well. Uhm.????????

I think stock should be the most even playing field known to the event or rule of racing.
Not just on skill level but afford ability level as well.
mix factory backing with over the counter wallet backing and you will not get far with that in the future. I think.

Stock used to be designed to make you want to step up. Not out.

If a bash racer or club racer or a just get out with the guys and hang out racers don't feel they have a chance they will not show after a race or two.

And they will end up running off road. Or bashing.
Stock was designed as a Spec type class...which it still is...Everyone uses the SAME motor...just like 19 turn. It was never designed to be a beginner's class. Thats just what people took it to be over the years because its slower. When you go to a National event you get the SAME motor as the "sponsored" guy does but he still wins...why? You think its because he got a faster handout? Or because he has someone tuning his motor for him? Its because his car is setup better and he drove better.....People are too hung up on sponsored drivers.....

You think onroad is bad with sponsored drivers there are 100 times more offroad guys sponsored!! There are motor companies out there you have probably never heard of that only go to offroad races. Go to any Off-road national and there are no less than 5-6 motor "tuners" (as we are called) there. At the on-road races there are usually 2.....Me and Brood and lately Kwik. And I can tell you that any of us will take the time to build a motor for anyone that walks up giving we have time at that very minute. I know I do at least. You can have the same motor that Drew Ellis or Travis Schreven.....all you got to do is know how to set your car up and drive it!

EA
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:21 PM   #54
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Stock was designed as a Spec type class...which it still is...Everyone uses the SAME motor...just like 19 turn. It was never designed to be a beginner's class. Thats just what people took it to be over the years because its slower. When you go to a National event you get the SAME motor as the "sponsored" guy does but he still wins...why? You think its because he got a faster handout? Or because he has someone tuning his motor for him? Its because his car is setup better and he drove better.....People are too hung up on sponsored drivers.....

You think onroad is bad with sponsored drivers there are 100 times more offroad guys sponsored!! There are motor companies out there you have probably never heard of that only go to offroad races. Go to any Off-road national and there are no less than 5-6 motor "tuners" (as we are called) there. At the on-road races there are usually 2.....Me and Brood and lately Kwik. And I can tell you that any of us will take the time to build a motor for anyone that walks up giving we have time at that very minute. I know I do at least. You can have the same motor that Drew Ellis or Travis Schreven.....all you got to do is know how to set your car up and drive it!

EA
You can barely call it spec any more its to appealing to the I want the win crowd.
I see a lot of people running stock, I just don't see a lot of stock racers.
Factory backing is more than just what you can get as far as equality.
If a racer can smoke a guy with a stock motor and other running a 19t hes not supposed to be in that class its called sand bagging. He should be forced to bump up. Same as a sponsored guy should be in his class.

If the manufacturers want to sell products I would rather buy the product that went through the most extreme racing at the events. Not he one that cherry picked it.
I'm an average racer. I would run mod against a sponsored guy before I would try to match his skill level and studies to mine. I work he races.
Any how I should get out of here before people think we are arguing.

I always say a debate that can come to an understanding in the end we all win.
An argument ends back to back and we all lose.

No disrespect to the pros I would like to be one.
I mean you are who you race sometimes.
I'm not the Wizard just trying to be.

Any hoot: GO FAST AND TRY NOT TO CRASH.!
Thats what the pros do.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:28 AM   #55
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this imo is the dummest thread i have ever seen...

so if i spend hella time and energy and find a way to make a 13.5 faster
im supposed to tell someone i did, they copy it and then everyone else is the same speed?

i agree with EA....and i will also tune anyones motor, i usually give the leftover handouts to thte locals, ive dont this at every race...someone asks, and i do it....Just liek i build the pro;s motors

sponsored guys in stock:

here is how it is, most dont soak this in as its something they dont want to hear.....

COMPANY's ie: car manufacturers and motor companies ARE the ones that decide WHAT class there driver runs. do you think the guys winning stock like to sit here and see everyone raggin on them? no...but here is an example...

we have car company 1 and car company 2..

car company 1 decides that stock is sandbaggin and pulls its drivers out of stock....car company 2 says...hmmmm here is our chance to dominate then car company 1 has to go back in and not look like loosers...

just looks like someone is trying to get more people racing or buying 13.5's
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:03 AM   #56
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Controlled tire and controlled motor (or said spec BL) is good enough to bring the overall cost down, which generally stop the advantage sponsored driver had. And if you feel the stock class is too competitive for newbie in ur local track, it's time to ask club management to start newbie class, whatever spec it's, to give newbie a place to race against each newbie. This is something your club management can do.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:19 AM   #57
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One of the fundamental skills in R/C racing is the ability to spin losing so it's the result of anything other than your goddamn ineptitude.

/thread
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:37 AM   #58
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Im assuming all you guy's are located in the US or Europe somewhere. Spare a thought for us downunder, our hobby stores do not support unsponsered racers at all, they have sponsered racers running at clubs and larger events but don't support the racing at a non sponsered level, why, well mainly because they would go broke doing so, the reason for that is we only have single distributors in this country and that means they can largely charge what they like. I caught out a major importer/distributor marking up a certain kit by over 300%, I vented my frustrations to the manufacturers and the "oversight" to save on arguments was corrected.

My point you wonder, we in Aus in order to be competitve even without sponsered drivers racing have to buy most of our stuff OS or second hand to keep up. For instance a 13.5 brushless combo for you guy's is around $220 or so, for us it's like $400. For a comp level chassis, say a Cyclone, we need to find $700. So to gripe over having to spend $1000 to get set up and race ready is nothing compered to our outlays.

Would banning sponsored drivers in stock help us here, I doubt it and we allow brushed and brushless to compete together at most clubs and even some regional events lately. Sponsered or not it won't help the cost for us. What's needed is for manufacturers to allow multiple distributors to help create competition, but more so for racing they need to stop this 1950's attitude to making a requirement that all distributors or even themselves can only sell to "Store Front" as the store fronts dont support the racing. By having dealers that race at our tracks being able to sell the "racing" aimed products of the manufacturers that would go a long long way to helping our racing scene. Maybe after this we could look at the issue of sponsered drivers causing problems.

So really for you guy's it can't be that bad, considering our situation you have it very very good.

Cheers
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:56 AM   #59
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Aaron, short words for you: internet & international order.

I'm all to support LHS if they serve people well. If they just sucking money and do no good, go internet and international order. 700usd can buy you 2 Tamiya MRE in HK without shipping. And EMS shipping isn't expensive at all nowday. GOD BLESS INTERNET AND GLOBALIZATION!

The way I see, sponsored or not isn't really the factor stopping newbie coming race. It's the starting cost and competitive. If stock is the lowest class you have in club, that cost/competitive will stop newbie to start racing. A newbie class to give newbie a chance is way more important than stop sponsored driver.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:06 AM   #60
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A newbie class to give newbie a chance is way more important than stop sponsored driver

Bloody Oath......................
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