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Old 07-01-2007, 05:21 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
Manufacturer's should not have to be prevented from sponsoring stock drivers. They should choose not to do it.
is this the first tour of "what should rick howart do next"? lol save the hobby.. i've said it in another thread, maybe this one.. with stock as fast as it is, faster guys don't need to move up to go fast anymore.. at some tracks they are less than a second off of mod pace per lap..
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
.
Very good answers that I agree with too.
Thanks for that.
Fred

PS (very tricky NovakTwo, I can't quote a quote on here. But this is in your reply to my post)

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Old 07-01-2007, 06:28 PM   #33
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This thread is stupid...sorry but it is.

We ALL agree that we should not sponsor stock drivers but whats done is done and there is no way to stop it now

Grass roots sponsorship of stock drivers sells more cars than pro driver wins do...thats a fact. There is too much money in it for any company to stop sponsoring stock guys.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:30 PM   #34
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Yea but a brushless spec class is a step in the right direction of an affordable entry level class.

Promotion is great, but you need something to promote.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:31 PM   #35
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Manufacturer's should not have to be prevented from sponsoring stock drivers. They should choose not to do it.

F*in eh, bubba!
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
This thread is stupid...sorry but it is.

We ALL agree that we should not sponsor stock drivers but whats done is done and there is no way to stop it now

Grass roots sponsorship of stock drivers sells more cars than pro driver wins do...thats a fact. There is too much money in it for any company to stop sponsoring stock guys.
Well said Adrian.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:00 PM   #37
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We raced nitro sedans for years with 250-400$ .12 motors, foam tires(good for the day or not) ect ect unlimited nitro racing..... Over night it stopped dead in its tracks. Lots can be blamed in our area for the here this summer gone the next. But the high cost was killing guys, and when joe-RTR showed up and found out his entire race kit cost the same as my Radio he did not stick around long...

I heard mention of SPEC racing on this thread. If interested drop by my site. After a 3 year complete lack of nitro scene. I mean no racing for 3 years. A few of my fellow racers and I devised a SPEC NITRO plan and implemented the thing in the Fall of 2006. We recruited 25 racers for the spring start of the series. 14 of which had not raced with our club ever or at least not in the last 6-8 years.

Box stock no hop-up racing:
http://users.xplornet.com/~jlagace/nitro/

The great thing is there is no sponsored driver "he's got what i want" crap going on, no more excuses cuz u don't have the hot motor or hot setup(we don't allow chassis setup) No tire of the week(we spec 2 tires legal only). We got seasoned racers of over 15+years plus the newest of racers racing together. The new guys are exciting to watch cuz there is no frustration on there face. A look i was to familiar with in the old unlimited nitro days where good equipment wasn't enough cuz someone had a box of free tires or a motor sponsor ect ect....

I must agree sponsorship in stock or at the club level can be a pain for racing in general or the better of the club. Its sometimes hard to watch guys complain that there stuff isn't good cuz Joe-sponsored driver gets his for free or at a discount. IT don't matter that they don't drive well enough its easier to point to what they don't have.... I personally don't have issue with it where i race. There are sponsored guys some fast others not so fast. I have beaten all of them at one time or another and likewise for them. For me its not an issue I'm a casual racer that has been around way too long to be blaming my lack of driving skills on equipment i don't get for free. But the hard thing is keeping the new guys from falling into the trap of wanting or needing cuz a sponsored guy is in there face with there gear all the time. This can discourage new guys from sticking around. Unfortunately you loose them before they can learn that driving better comes from practice not free packs or tires.

The fortunate thing for us locally is this spec nitro series we are holding is really being received well and we hope to bring many of the racers indoors for our winter electric racing where costs will go up and the site of sponsored drivers will be obvious. At this time the guys are learning to drive and maintain there car and can see that a great driver with equal equipment can put 15+laps on a new guy in a 15minute main. Feeling that performance difference on a 100% level playing field really puts driving ability into perspective.Fortunately the new guys are seeing that practice practice practice and racing all the time improves lap times not equipment or free gear. IF we had these same 14 new guys come out in various trims and budgets into our stock electric sedan class I'm sure the perception of speed would be different.... Equipment would be what they point to first... With spec everything those excuses gone.



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Old 07-01-2007, 07:06 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
This thread is stupid...sorry but it is.

We ALL agree that we should not sponsor stock drivers but whats done is done and there is no way to stop it now

Grass roots sponsorship of stock drivers sells more cars than pro driver wins do...thats a fact. There is too much money in it for any company to stop sponsoring stock guys.
So wait the thread is stupid or sponsoring stock racers is? It can't really be both can it? Discussion of a problem and trying for solutions is never stupid but sitting back without comment always is. First they sponsored the stock racers and I did nothing as I am not a stock racer and all that.

Anyway, maybe brushless stock is a way to get some changes made. Instead of integration, create something new.
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:12 PM   #39
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Anyway, maybe brushless stock is a way to get some changes made. Instead of integration, create something new.


I agree but it could also include a granfather clause that would allow current roar legal brushed motors to race with them... Brand new rule, no integration simply allow the old tech in, to allow easier transition if a club was to fragment over having 2 "stock" classes.... Most would agree framentation at the club level is the killer of racing. Too many classes hurts
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:23 PM   #40
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we could just use hand-out motors that are sealed by a sticker or sthing.. that guarantees equal power to all. But i agree that stock class should be kept for amateurs...
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:27 PM   #41
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I must agree sponsorship in stock or at the club level can be a pain for racing in general or the better of the club. Its sometimes hard to watch guys complain that there stuff isn't good cuz Joe-sponsored driver gets his for free or at a discount. IT don't matter that they don't drive well enough its easier to point to what they don't have....
Another odd result of local, sponsored drivers is that, for newcomers, becoming sponsored is often a major "goal" of racing. We regularly receive requests from local racers who have won a handfull of races and now believe that they are qualified to be factory-sponsored drivers and get free stuff. I'm sure everyone in the industry receives the same basic letter or e-mail.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:06 PM   #42
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yep your right, and it seems there is always someone looking to sponsor those racers..

In there defence its good for there business. Im talking small motor builder companies mostly, i see them pop up at our club here and there over the years, if they had not sponsored a local driver non of the local hobby shops would have brought in there motors. so i can see the atraction for companies to sponsors club drivers.

ITs not all negative, i see both sides of it.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:38 PM   #43
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Novak two.

I would say no sponsored drivers till 5800 sintered or faster classes.
It will end the bickering before it gets started. You want to run with the sponsored drivers then run with them.

13.5 bonded beginner and 13.5 sintered sportsman.
You have an opportunity to read what the future of stock racing has become.
If that makes any sense.
Promote the expert class. 5800 and faster.

No! Sponsored racers in entry and club level racing.

It will make people want to chase the experts and run in there class.
Or help promote a self proclaimed privateer group of people.
Thats the class to figure out.

13.5 bonded. Entry level.
13.5 sintered. Sportsman.
4300 sintered. Privateer.
5800 Sponsored.
And full on open Modified.

I would watch closely qualifying times and laps and force bump ups to faster or slower classes. That would help discourage sand baggers.

EXAMPLE: If you have a racer running as fast as a 4300 with a 13.5 make him bump up. And he'll have to throw in a 4300 or run his 13.5 against 4300's. Trust me I've seen pro racers spank 4300's with 13.5 sintered motors. The 4300 is not that much faster.

If you think this is harsh. Then figure out where to put the new guys that get pushed out do to there competition level.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:01 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING View Post
Novak two.

I would say no sponsored drivers till 5800 sintered or faster classes.
It will end the bickering before it gets started. You want to run with the sponsored drivers then run with them.

13.5 bonded beginner and 13.5 sintered sportsman.
You have an opportunity to read what the future of stock racing has become.
If that makes any sense.
Promote the expert class. 5800 and faster.

No! Sponsored racers in entry and club level racing.

It will make people want to chase the experts and run in there class.
Or help promote a self proclaimed privateer group of people.
Thats the class to figure out.

13.5 bonded. Entry level.
13.5 sintered. Sportsman.
4300 sintered. Privateer.
5800 Sponsored.
And full on open Modified.

I would watch closely qualifying times and laps and force bump ups to faster or slower classes. That would help discourage sand baggers.

EXAMPLE: If you have a racer running as fast as a 4300 with a 13.5 make him bump up. And he'll have to throw in a 4300 or run his 13.5 against 4300's. Trust me I've seen pro racers spank 4300's with 13.5 sintered motors. The 4300 is not that much faster.

If you think this is harsh. Then figure out where to put the new guys that get pushed out do to there competition level.

So by your standards you have posted a sponsored racer can not club race if no one else wants to run 5800 class or faster? YEA RIGHT!! When Monkeys fly!! And you think there is a lack of racers now....run off the sponsored guys from their home club tracks and tell them they cant club race unless its 5800 or Mod.....even if no one else show's up for them to race with.

Every track needs a "rookie" or "sportsman" class for the rookies or sportsman type racers and I'll be the 1st person to agree with that! Its where EVERYONE should start and they should not be allowed to move up until they hit a certain "5 minute lap run" or "speed" for a given layout/track.

Flame me if you want but you guys are F'ing crazy if you think running the sponsored guys out of 13.5 is going to help anything! Its a damn 13.5 BL motor for pete's sake.....There's nothing you can do to them and they are "all the same speed"......

First it was sponsored guys get all the good motors and batteries....now its already starting they get better BL motors.....Fact is Sponsored guys are fast because they KNOW how to set up a car and how to drive.....Its not because they have better equipment as everyone likes to bitch, moan and cry!! When everyone grows up and realizes this then maybe they will learn to pay attention to their cars and practice so they can be fast too. You guys keep creating classes for everyone under the sun and you wont get any faster or better racing the same guys every week.....and before you say it EVERYONE wants to get faster and better and not beat the walls down every week....so dont give me the "We just want to have fun".....Getting faster and better is the fun part of racing and competition.


EA
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:05 PM   #45
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UN4Racing....my post isnt directed as you neccessarliy....I just quoted you. And after reading the rest of your post I agree with the last part about making guys move up as they gain experience and get faster.....I made my post before reading that part!! LOL.

But I still say that the "Pro" or sponsored guys should be allowed to run their own Expert or Pro 13.5 class at the club level.

EA
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