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Old 07-02-2007, 01:00 AM   #121
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You want a cheap place to race bad enough that you'd advocate price controls between local shops???????

Did I read that right?
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:08 AM   #122
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No, the LAST thing I'd want to see is price fixing between local shops... but if they're all supporting a great track in the area, some sort of cooperative guidelines when they're all ;selling ON SITE on race days might be in order to prevent gunfire and such... this IS New York, after all...
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:10 AM   #123
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Holy Crap!! I've just spent an hour reading this thread.

If I'm a new guy thinking about onroad, I've just decided to buy a heli instead!

We gotta quit preaching doom and gloom here guys.

If your local track closes.....start a club, that's where it all began anyhow right?
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:21 AM   #124
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OIC...

"cooperative guidelines"...not..."price controls"

Well then...I feel much better about it then.

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No, the LAST thing I'd want to see is price fixing between local shops... but if they're all supporting a great track in the area, some sort of cooperative guidelines when they're all ;selling ON SITE on race days might be in order to prevent gunfire and such... this IS New York, after all...
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:28 AM   #125
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I'm talking about such a thing only when theyr'e all there selling on race day at the track... not during the week in their respective shops. And if that seems unreasonable, maybe it's just that it's late and I'm tired...

I'm not looking for a cheap place to race either... I'd be perfectly happy to spend $40 for a race entry fee every week instead of the $15 or $20 that's usually the case. The track has to stay afloat somehow.

All I do know is that when I started realizing that it seemed that 90 percent of the race day crowd was sponsored by an area shop, that I had the notion that when the track died there had to be another way, or else how could a track survive in this area?
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:43 AM   #126
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I just don't understand the linkage thing between the shop prices and the track prices. It just doesn't make good sense to me to compromise a shop's competitive viability just to subsidize a track.

If the track can't pull its own weight, then it needs to go. Period. If real estate is too expensive around there, then do a parking lot race. Insurance is a non-issue. Any legitimate business can purchase a rider for a commercial policy for a limited use...pay that (50-100 bucks TOPS) and you're good for a million or two coverage.

I know that property values are exorbitant in NYC, it's the same here in SoCal. We don't race on Wilshire in downtown LA, we race in Montclair, Corona, La Mirada, Beaumont, Hemet...sometimes 30-50 minutes away. Some guys drive 60+ minutes each way to club race a couple times a week.

Real estate is why the SoCal R/C track is going bye-bye...Orange County is crazy expensive. Now the hardcore on-road guys are racing at a public rec center on carpet and they resurrected an old on-road track. You gotta do what you gotta do if you want to race. You can't expect everyone else to pay your way by paying extra at the shop, because then the shop isn't viable either.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:57 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
If the track can't pull its own weight, then it needs to go. Period. If real estate is too expensive around there, then do a parking lot race. Insurance is a non-issue. Any legitimate business can purchase a rider for a commercial policy for a limited use...pay that (50-100 bucks TOPS) and you're good for a million or two coverage.
We have some brutal weather in the winter here... Parking lot racing in the Northeast is not viable during those months, cheap insurance notwithstanding.

1/12 scales don't do well on most parking lots, even in the summer months in the northeast... the pavement tends to be be somewhat cracked and nasty as a result of the winters. Touring cars can get by, but it's still not anywhere near as nice as smooth asphalt.

If I still lived in Escondido, I wouldn't be looking for a way for a facility to survive in my area... I'd have a bunch to choose from on any given weekend.

Like I said originally, maybe it's unique to this particular place, but on any given race day, there might have been 50 racers or so at the track, forty or forty five of whom were sponsored by local hobby shops. I can't see a track being a viable business under those conditions unless either the shops themselves get together and subsidize a track where they can all cooperate and do business on site during race days, or entry fees go up dramatically. And like I said, if it DID have to cost me $40 or even $50 to race on any given weekend, I'd still consider it a privilege. I've lived here for many years... the ones when a carpet track was operating nearby were ALWAYS better years then the ones without.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:01 AM   #128
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Carpet in a gym would work just fine. Right?

Escondido to NYC? Damn...can you say "culture shock"? I lived in DC for a while and that was a big change from Corona for sure...but DAMN.
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:23 AM   #129
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Several years ago we raced in a gym in the Bronx every Sunday. Rolled the carpet out in the morning and rolled it back up in the afternoon. Wasn't a bad thing at all. I think the cost involved (the school had to have an employee on hand for the whole day) wasn't too exorbitant. Only issue was that with the carpet not glued down it tended to get wrinkles if marshals weren't stepping lightly, but it really wasn't that much of a problem.
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:17 AM   #130
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You don't know how good you have it until you lose your racetrack.Several years ago a local shop move to a new location- built and indoor track and within three months shut the doors after our friday night race. Everyone was told at the beginning of the race around 7pm by 9:30 that was it.
People when they first opened tuesday night was practice night. You would have thought it was race night. After the second month tues was dead- maybe 5 racers. Friday night fell off too. During this time the other track in town(outdoors) stopped there program.Well the outdoor track is still racing and the indoor track site has had two tenants since then.
They also had a once a month race at a church- this too died for several reasons. Again the local and out of town racer stopped coming- the church wanted the space back and that was it. Another track to far and on private property - never got any support and closed. Still the outdoor track is still racing.
Before the permanent outdoor track we raced parking lots on Sundays. Now you can't get them to race Sundays.You can't even get them to come to a free race on Sundays.Still they come to the Friday night races.
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:56 AM   #131
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Default shops co sponsoring a track

Great idea, but getting businesses to work together and accept losses together (which will happen because tracks make very little if any money,) will be difficult. The reason all of the hobbyshops you mentioned support the race teams is because:
1) it costs them almost nothing. If they sell the parts at cost (adding in shipping of course), those parts cost them next to nothing
2) free advertising and exposure
3) free bragging rights if their team wins (nascar sponsors)

What will happen when the track starts to lose money? Do you really think all of these hobby stores will pay the losses? How do you determine who gets to have the retail space at big races when it will obviously make more money? What happens when the budgets get tight. If the choice is pay the track costs or pay your suppliers/electricity/etc, which will win out?

I think that racing should be able to cover the track's costs if you:
1) take the racing back onto the parking lots (if a permanent track is too expensive)
2) raise the cost of racing
3) charge club dues
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:33 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
This may sound strange coming from me but I see the biggest decline in TC racing and electric in general is the quality of the damn batteries we have today. I know everyone already knows this but in order to race most guys have to babysit these damn cells and it just takes the fun out of it. There's nothing worse than getting a few new packs and running them the first week and everything is fine. You show up the next week and only 2 of your 4 packs have 6 good cells in them. I dont see a lot of return cells come back my way but I DO replace them and offer a replacement for bad cells on anything I sell and so do most all other matchers. But 95% of the time they just toss the pack and never contact the manufactures.

I wish the cells would just go back to only having to buy a few new packs each year or buying 4 packs twice a year. We all didnt know how good we had it during the GP3300 days although they were a lot harder to match for the matchers! Now if you want to race on a competitive level....even locally you got to buy 2 new packs each month....and thats IF you dont have one go bad on you! This added to the expense of softer tires that wear faster, thin ass bodies that fold up on impact and must have a new one each week and the 400+ dollar TC's!! Its getting retarded.

EA

Yet, its those moronic matchers and the governing bodies that refuse to adopt and endorse Lipo packs like Orion 3200 or 4800, which are much safer and reliable than the retarted prehistoric nimh cells idiots keep buying those retarted sub c packsIts ridiculous!!!
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:49 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Yet, its those moronic matchers and the governing bodies that refuse to adopt and endorse Lipo packs like Orion 3200 or 4800, which are much safer and reliable than the retarted prehistoric nimh cells idiots keep buying those retarted sub c packsIts ridiculous!!!

Well this "moronic Matcher" has no problem with Lipo's. I raced against them yesterday. Ive said 100's of time that every club in the world should allow Lipo's as long as they use a good reliable one such as they Orion packs. Soft sided packs should NOT be allowed in racing....PERIOD. Even though lipo's have proven to be a lot safer than given credit for the problems that you do see are all from soft packs.

One thing that overzealous lipo fanatics must realize is that the Governing bodies must figure out a way to deal with lipo's and 4 cell classes before legalizing them. That's the MAJOR hold up. Trust me I am on the Roar On-Road committee and this is a current topic that we are trying to figure out a way around. A saddle pack type lipo could be one route but it would still be way to fast for 12th scale on-road or Oval.

The argument of Lipo's are 7.4 volts and Nimh's are 7.2 volts can be throwed out the window as far as I am concerned. Ive gotten to test the lipo prototype GFX and have seen a few of the orion lipo packs cycled (Yes they have designed a GFX that will safely charge and discharge a lipo within its paramiters and not damage it!!) and a lipo pack does not hold a candle to a below average Nimh pack. BUT lipo's still run good on the track and for the person looking for no maintenance, doesnt have to replace cells every month and charge every two races then lipo is the answer.

Instead of having such a piss poor attitude towards the world why not be pro-active and try to help.....With you and others on here bad mouthing everyone you "think" is against lipo's its just making them get pissed off and drag their feet more.

EA
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:22 AM   #134
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Tracks just isn't worth the investment in property regardless if it is rented or purchased for the most part.

If the track doesn't have a profitable hobby shop. The track will need to rely on 2 days worth of income per week at race fee's of 10-15 dollars x 100 racers on race day and a fraction of that on the other day. Week days are a wash since it probably costs more to open vs what the track brings in for the day.
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:31 AM   #135
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You can run LiPo in 12th. Just need to run single cell voltage. Takes a huge gear to make it go though. When I tried it, it was a little slower with the 13.5 and had just a touch less rip in mod (3.5 turn).

The biggest problem that I had was the weight. LiPo made the car like 2 ounces light. I ran the car light with the LiPo's.
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