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Old 06-30-2007, 10:26 PM   #91
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I don't understand this collectivist thing...most hobby store customers will never step foot on a track. Why should they pay higher prices just to subsidize a track they'll never use?
They shouldn't be ripped off, but "discounts" in this industry make the acceptable profit margins laughable.


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I know that locating a track in Manhattan is going to be a dicey situation due to the exorbitant property values, but it's not like we have them on Wilshire Blvd here either...they're in the 'burbs, 30-60 miles out where land is cheaper.
Everywhere in the tri-state area tracks are having problems surviving for more than a few years, even when they're tucked away in a cheap industrial park.
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If the track can't pay the rent, then it needs to move to a place where it can pay the rent...period.
Well, the commute to California might be a bit much for us easterners!
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If the racers don't support the TRACK, then the TRACK needs to address that issue.
That is the question you and I should be talking about. I've suggested we eat the silly discount by investing it into the local track. What do you suggest?
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Maybe you guys should all pitch in and do a track as a club.
This idea is perfectly valid, except we only have one of those in one of, if not the most densely populated area in the country. Jackson R/C in NJ. You'd think think there would be more of this type of organization around, but it's impossible for anyone to get land inexpensively AND WORST OF ALL the major retailers that have parking lots sitting empty on "closed" days won't allow us to run organized events for insurance reasons.
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Oh yeah...Horizon has good prices???????
Yeah I didn't think that example through .... but Tower, for sure. Basically, anyone who sells a product below a 30% markup is responsible for eroding the market value of that product. Below 30% cuts out the little guys, bites into the shipping costs, and brings the profit/overhead ratio dangerously close to "NOT WORTH THE EFFORT". The paintball industry is a prime example of how lowering the market value of a core neccessity, paint balls, eventually has a knock-on effect to the entire industry. All it takes is for a few of the major manufacturers to set minimum retail pricing standards, and the entire industry grows tremendously.
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:41 PM   #92
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The problem with regionals is our director doesn't care about electric racing or care to try and get tracks involved in Roar. A bunch of us emailed about regionals and he said "I asked for bids but none were sent". Then I asked what he was doing to get tracks interested in Roar and telling them why they should want to hold a regional. I'm still waiting on that email to be returned. But I figured after two weeks it isn't coming.
just sent TP an email!!!
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Old 06-30-2007, 11:08 PM   #93
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Ok I'm sure someone will flame me for about I'm about to say and most will say who in the hell is Barry Voltz.... Ask EA, Toaste, Chris Adams, Baylock, Pooky, Lutz etc..... I’m the guy that has the Bass Pro Series and next year will be even bigger and better… It is only 6 months old at this point….

But the issues are the following:
1. Stock is for new people, after wining 3 stock races, club or otherwise, you are must move to Pro Stock (19T), after winning 3 Pro Stock races, you can run mod also. Pro Stock should be the meeting place that the pros can people that would like to find out how they stand, can find out....

2. LiPo only should be legal in Stock. SubCs are faster but they require much more then a newbie can handle. LiPo is more user friendly.

3. Sponsored racers should by from the LHS, and that LHS should get a credit for parts sold to the Sponsored driver from the sponsoring company. The Sponsored driver should carry a card from the company they have a sponsorship with. This way, the sponsored driver can run for both the company and the LHS, push more customer to the LHS. Not cutting out the LHS by getting product directly from the company. Go to a local race and most people will tell you they want to be sponsored, but why.... a better price on the products they purchase. It seems that a lot of racers think that someone should pay them to race and which is just plain crazy...

4. Online will continue to be a problem, online expands your market.
The LHS needs to on board with this and have an online shop, they can get one for a reasonable price. If you need a name, PM me or EA, and we can hook you up.

5. Race tracks/prompters need to remember this is entertainment and entry fees are the price for being entertainment. Stop and think or ask racers what they want. Racers are simple, they want a good race. Some want to win every time out, but this is just not real, so they will either leave or get this out there head.

6. I would tell you we need a entry point for club racing like a Mini class, cheap fun and a great starting point. Or find something like this...

7. Stock is a not a class for the nationals, only 19T and Mod (add other special classes if needed).

8. Tires, you must run the same set all heats and mains. The only ones that can afford this are the sponsored racers, eithe by a company, or Visa....

I feel these are the keys for R/C to continue.

These are my views, so please do not flame me for my thoughts....

Last edited by bvoltz; 07-01-2007 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 06-30-2007, 11:23 PM   #94
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It's not possible to compete with an online store with less overhead.
Sorry I just do not agree with you... I'm one person that is spending to put up a online store so my customers can order when they want, not when the store is open... I must tell, the cost of programers, support team and others... It costs more then a LHS. But my market is much bigger with online, and the hope is to off set these costs by an increase in volumn.

Just for the record, I have been part of many e-shop start ups, very big operations to complete out sourcing for a small time owner... Online is more costly then the store on the corner... My one client is in the 7th year, and 15 million, and still spending.... at one time we had 50 programers working on the project at the spend rate (I call it a burn rate) of 25,000 a day. Why because it is a very good marketing tool... No I do not program or host, I'm manage the projects...

The big problem with LHS, some are started by people that think, hey I can open a shop, and pay less for the parts I need, and maybe sell some stuff to my friends.... They are not business people, then the business people are conered because these want to be LHS, are cutting the prices under the table, then the racer thinks this is the price they should pay at all LHS.... So the Business people, will either cut and find ways to increase the traffic.... thus the cycle begins....
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:11 AM   #95
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Geez Barry a 91 turn motor? I agree stock motors are fast but...
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:27 AM   #96
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Geez Barry a 91 turn motor? I agree stock motors are fast but...
I also read that last night but was tentative on pointing it out.
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Old 07-01-2007, 08:49 AM   #97
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I am very upset and just disappointed that this is happening. I had visited Horsham last week sometime, and I found it weird that it was dead on a friday night. I belong to a small community of mini-z racers but I always had some interest in racing 1/10 sedans. I had spend a great deal of money to get my cars set for carpet racing. Now ??? hmm

I live in philly and there is no tracks in town that I can race. The closest was Horsham and perhaps south New Jersey.

I did more research and also found out that Popbelly closed its doors.

I lost it, so now I have my hands tide behind my back and no where to race.

Any suggestions?

thanks
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:08 AM   #98
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4. Online will continue to be a problem, online expands your market.
well you can thank Al Gore for inventing the internet
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:32 AM   #99
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I must tell, the cost of programers, support team and others... It costs more then a LHS. But my market is much bigger with online, and the hope is to off set these costs by an increase in volumn.
Your example is much like Speedtech, if I understand turbojoe correctly. A good shop/track that has a sustainable online presence. However, around my area, the online market gets all the cash and the tracks are only left with entry fee revenue.
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The big problem with LHS, some are started by people that think, hey I can open a shop, and pay less for the parts I need, and maybe sell some stuff to my friends.... They are not business people, then the business people are conered because these want to be LHS, are cutting the prices under the table, then the racer thinks this is the price they should pay at all LHS.... So the Business people, will either cut and find ways to increase the traffic.... thus the cycle begins....
Horsham was financed by plenty of cash, had a e-store of sorts, and was fully stocked. Probably the biggest shop at one of the biggest tracks I've ever seen in twenty some-odd years of racing. But the recipe didn't work, and sadly, this is the norm for the tri-state area around NYC.

I am steadfast, even after hearing your success story and the many examples from turbojoe, that buying from the local hobby shop/track is still the easiest way to ensure we have a place to race in the future. No marginless profits, no hopes and dreams of aquiring market share outside of normal business hours and beyond worthwhile driving distances for the customer base, just old fashioned loyalty to the places we go to race.
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Old 07-01-2007, 09:41 AM   #100
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opps

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Old 07-01-2007, 10:11 AM   #101
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I think we need more open classes. In another thread some one poked fun at the "run-what-cha-bring, back water, we dont need no stinkin rules" clubs. Well in my area this is the only race club that is still going strong. Reason? we all turn up to have fun. no one counts laps.. no one enforces rules.. we have 2 classes, stocks and mods and its up to you which one you race in. At the end of the night there is a smile on every face. why? because we had fun.

Exactly. When we used to run a class or two of "run-what-ya-got", numbers stayed consistently high, and in those classes we didn't even bother with lap-counting. When everyone has fun, they come back for more.
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Old 07-01-2007, 10:42 AM   #102
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Geez Barry a 91 turn motor? I agree stock motors are fast but...

LOL!!! My bad.... it should have been 19T....
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:54 AM   #103
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I think many people miss the point to what is happening.

For some its not about money or tracks closing it is about having fun. Once you lose that fun factor there is no point in continuing in the hobby. Many of the tracks that I have seen close were due to a variety of reasons. I sometimes think some areas have too many tracks so its the survival of the fittest or more supply than demand. Tracks like Tamiya closing is a shame but Tamiya USA is looking at the bigger picture of saving money. I never thought they would move from such a great location, they are. Life is about change.

It is easy to over-regulate the local level with "idealistic" rules that can strangle the hobby's fun factor. Like forcing me to bump up to 19t for winning stock. Our rules locally are more run what you brung type. Maybe I should run mod but I like stock and how I can get by in a season on 1 set of tires, 1 motor, the same batteries, etc. . . I hate mod mainly because everything gets torn up and needs to be replaced often. I enjoy working on my cars, not having to buy new stuff every week and being able to race with my friends & buddies during race days. Besides guys that run stock with me are always asking questions in how to be more competitive, which not only elevates their game but mine as well.

I do think though that the only place for factory guys is 19t and mod. Not that I cannot be competitive with them, I just cannot afford to have the latest stuff they have to be competitive. Usually I buy a new car every 2 or 3 years and I race year round. I think for the bigger races, sure regulate the rules more to make them more attractive for guys like me to want to race more affordable. I like the 1 tire rule, handout motors and maybe even handout batteries. It does get crazy when you need to spend minimum $300 for tires that you will only be racing once at a big race. Well I do save em for local racing.

well my 2 cents, see ya on the track!
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:48 PM   #104
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junelopez
wait a couple of weeks...think something is in the works to re-open the track...let's cross our fingers.
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Old 07-01-2007, 01:54 PM   #105
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How about incorporating a club at the local track, with annual dues. You have to be a member of the club to race, and of course you also have to pay the race entry fee to race. This way, the shop can make some money up front from anyone who wants to race. This is similar to the roar membership to race at roar sponsored events. The club fee can be $30-$40 for the year and include 3 practice sessions. (Practice costs the track very little, since the shop is open anyway.)

How about making the race fee $20 and have it cover up to 2 classes. This would do 2 things:
1) give the impression that racing is cheaper (most run 1 class and even adding 1 or 2 more heats to each round is not a big deal)
2) make more money per racer
3) sell more parts

Make certain classes run controlled hand out tires and motors. (The shop picks the brand, gets heat/fuel proof stickers made (inexpensive), and sell the tires/motors to the racers.) Allow anything in practice.

The 3 things above would increase the revenue from each racer by 30% or more and encourage more practice, which encourages more purchases.

If I were a hobby shop, I wouldn't stock race caliber equipment. For r/c, I would stock RTR r/c products and only consumables and limited parts for the cars being raced. I would special order everything else for each racer. Even though the markup on big items is small, the markup on small items (replacement parts,) is good (50%-100%). It doesn't make sense to carry inventory for products you rarely sell. (I am taking into account that racers buy online/used.)
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