R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-12-2007, 01:23 PM   #316
Tech Elite
 
Leodis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,058
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe View Post
LOL...c'mon...if you think that Horizon is giving R/C Hobbies in La Mirada (Losipartshouse.com) some sweet deal...then what's the reason that Speedtech and Pegasus get the same deal?

They're not exactly the easiest WD to get in with and they don't exactly take kindly to online-only operations from what I've seen and heard. They're pretty hard-core about it.

Sell more, buy more, get better deals. That's how business works. Volume and turn rate is everything.
Your solution isn't an option for my lhs/track and many other lhs/tracks throughout the country. To sell more, the track would need new customers (which is virtually non-existent in electric RC racing right now) and/or the owner would have to quit his real job, start an online hobby shop, and hope that he makes enough money to feed his family. Fortunately, most of the racers at the lhs/track "get it" and they do a good job of supporting the lhs/track.

The indoor track business model is breaking down under the pressure from online retailers and the fact that RC racing is declining in popularity. We Americans have become pretty spoiled over the years and take these "for profit" tracks for granted. If things keep going like they currently are, the "club" will be back in "club racing". Then we'll have to worry about finding public land to use for racing, pooling our money together for lap counting equipment and other stuff, showing up early every weekend to prep the track and staying late to break it down, etc... Most of us would rather pay other people to worry about that stuff and just race, but that won't be an option for too much longer, IMO. I doubt that lots of the people who started racing in the glory days of electric will stick around for the kind of "club racing" that the rest of the world has been doing for years and RC racing will eventually become as dead as Dillinger in the U.S..
Leodis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 01:39 PM   #317
Tech Master
 
Tempest2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 1,590
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

ANYONE that thinks tracks survive on entry fees has never run a track/shop before.

If you are depending on entries to pay the bills then you are already doomed.

Do the math for the places that pay $5000-$8000 a month in rent at $15 a head (not even figuring on a 2nd class discount)

In a 4 weekend month you are talking 83+ entries at 5000 and 133+ for 8000
so thats 83-133 entries Per Week to just pay for the building not counting the elec. gas, ins., phone, internet, etc.

I don't know many tracks that have that kind of a racer base.

Most indoor tracks are seasonal like ours is. Good during the winter and scarce during the summer. If you don't make enough in the winter it has to come out someones pocket in the summer.

Without a hobby shop or concessions most tracks wouldn't exist.
Tempest2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 01:44 PM   #318
Tech Master
 
Tempest2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 1,590
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

what people don't know or realize is that if you do enough volume or know the right people you can go direct to the manufacturers. and bypass the middle men. I know of one hobby shop in the US that has direct accounts with all the big names and saves an extra 20% over anyone purchasing through horizon or GP so they can afford to sell cheaper and still make as much or more money than most of their competitors

The more volume you sell with horizon you get a better manufacturer percentage, but it doesn't apply to all items usually not big ticket items just parts.

GP is more strict than horizon about online shops fyi.
Tempest2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 02:11 PM   #319
Tech Regular
 
idwurks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 279
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to idwurks Send a message via Yahoo to idwurks
Default

Tempest is on the ball and damn right about everything.

And what everyone says about the rent and what not - totally correct too. I used to race at one of the nicest slot car tracks in the world, but a business like that cannot survive with a $6000 rent per month just for the space ALONE. Land owners are pushing up prices more and more and soon enough, there will be nothing left but mcdonalds and starbucks everywhere (in california).

I would guess it is a safe bet to say that the property owners in CA are some of the richest people around.

I feel bad for business owners that have such a noble and hard task, only for it to be made worse by increased property prices.

And Tempest, I am sorry you have to deal with that horrible profit margin I have a friend who owns www.setuning.com - and you would be amazing at the profit margin of a $4000 set of forged wheels. It turns out to be something like 5-10%.....

Something has to give.
idwurks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 02:34 PM   #320
Tech Master
 
Tempest2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 1,590
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

I'm just giving the facts instead of opinions... If you haven't run a shop/track you probably don't know the specifics.

I would be in the lower income bracket... no big money backing the shop just a fellow racer trying to keep a track open so the locals have a place to race. when I was 16 we lost our main track (actually lost 5 in less than a couple years. It was around 7 years later before a permanent track returned to nashville. Due to low turnouts for various reasons mainly the former track owner the place almost went under a few years ago. I along with a business partner took it over and have been running it for the past 2 years. entries went from 20-30's to averaging 55+ on just the offroad track with a peak of 125 for a Club race. that doesn't include the onroad and oval. but that only lasts for 5-6 months max a year and the rest of the time the turnouts don't pay the rent. Our rent is extremely low, but in the ghetto in the back of a warehouse so no visibility, roof leaks, etc. but we have a place to race.

I work a full time job in addition to the shop to keep it open. From a racers stand point I would rather close the shop and travel to races at least I don't have to run the shop, track, etc and I can enjoy it.

Like someone else pointed out I could quit my job to sell everything at 4% over cost and make a small fortune (maybe $50,000) a year filling orders 20 hours a day. but I'd rather work a real job and make real money instead of depending on cheap skate RC racers looking to scrimp a dime to make a living off of LOL

Whoops was that out loud?
Tempest2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 02:50 PM   #321
Tech Elite
 
Francis M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 4,719
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post
I'm just giving the facts instead of opinions... If you haven't run a shop/track you probably don't know the specifics.

I would be in the lower income bracket... no big money backing the shop just a fellow racer trying to keep a track open so the locals have a place to race. when I was 16 we lost our main track (actually lost 5 in less than a couple years. It was around 7 years later before a permanent track returned to nashville. Due to low turnouts for various reasons mainly the former track owner the place almost went under a few years ago. I along with a business partner took it over and have been running it for the past 2 years. entries went from 20-30's to averaging 55+ on just the offroad track with a peak of 125 for a Club race. that doesn't include the onroad and oval. but that only lasts for 5-6 months max a year and the rest of the time the turnouts don't pay the rent. Our rent is extremely low, but in the ghetto in the back of a warehouse so no visibility, roof leaks, etc. but we have a place to race.

I work a full time job in addition to the shop to keep it open. From a racers stand point I would rather close the shop and travel to races at least I don't have to run the shop, track, etc and I can enjoy it.

Like someone else pointed out I could quit my job to sell everything at 4% over cost and make a small fortune (maybe $50,000) a year filling orders 20 hours a day. but I'd rather work a real job and make real money instead of depending on cheap skate RC racers looking to scrimp a dime to make a living off of LOL

Whoops was that out loud?

You should close down shop if you cannot find a way to make a decent living keeping the shop open. You know the industry is the way it is and for you to depend on some hobbyist to pay more on a consistent basis out of loyalty is not a good business plan.
Francis M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 04:02 PM   #322
Tech Elite
 
Turbo Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 4,878
Trader Rating: 41 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest2000 View Post
The more volume you sell with horizon you get a better manufacturer percentage, but it doesn't apply to all items usually not big ticket items just parts.
Hmmmm.....I wonder where a hobby shop would ever find more customers...damn.

If only there was a way to maybe broaden your customer base to people outside your particular geographical region without actually having a presence there.

Perhaps a "virtual" presence would suffice?

BTW -- no duh on the discounts on parts vs. discounts on kits. Discounts are pretty handy for places that want to sell lots of the highest margin stuff.

There are lots and lots of ways to buy right and make money. You just have to be committed to doing it, rather than complaining that it's not possible. Buy right and turn the inventory.
Turbo Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 05:28 PM   #323
Tech Master
 
annie_himself's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, La
Posts: 1,268
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to annie_himself
Default City owned tracks

Why not a track not owned by a person or family, it can be owned by the parish (or counties in states other that Louisiana). Ours is owned by the parish and does ok. The President might take a hundred bones from his pocket a year. I think it would do ok if the land was already owned by the state or parish (county) and all of the profits were given to the city/state/parish/county and for track prep. instead of to a single owner or family for income. People wouldn't have to work as hard to support it and still have a place to race.
annie_himself is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 07:29 PM   #324
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 213
Default

Down in CT there is an asphalt track owned by the city.

I came from planes. And the Club model works for airplanes. Every place to fly I know around here is a CLUB. They are NONPROFIT. They have to rent their land (which is MUCH BIGGER than an RC track. You don't need 3 acres for an RC track.) pay for the huge mowing, provide a pits area with tents, take care of the grass, etc. The only things they do not worry about that we do are ELEC, HEATING, and TRYING TO TURN A PROFIT. Airplanes break. Airplanes take parts. But there is no LHS on the club. Plane people buy online except a few senior citizens who do not like the internet.

If there is anyone here to tell me why the club model won't work for racing, I'll be impressed. I am a newbie after all.
Yub, yub, cmdr! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 08:42 PM   #325
Tech Champion
 
oXYnary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,301
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to oXYnary Send a message via Yahoo to oXYnary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
You should close down shop if you cannot find a way to make a decent living keeping the shop open. You know the industry is the way it is and for you to depend on some hobbyist to pay more on a consistent basis out of loyalty is not a good business plan.
There is no simple magical business plan. Except to open in a high volume area such as a Mall where you can get every Tom, Dick and Harry. That throws out racing, and mostly caters to people who will buy a RTR, never to be seen again except to demand the shop fix their car as if it has some type of warranty.

What I see going on here is confusion with the above "Hobby Shop" being used as the example of what a "RC Hobby and Track" should be able to do. They really are two different beasts. We are talking Mom and Pop operations who cant afford those high traffic areas. Who can't offer prices online at any significant discount and be lost in the growing competition online.

Its a whole attitude of economics being argued here. The "buy local" versus "buy cheapest".
oXYnary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:19 PM   #326
Tech Fanatic
 
trailranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 946
Default

What is killing the LHS and Race Tracks, From my point of view.

1. To much change!!! The advent of cheap RTR 1/18 scales sold like hot cakes with 1/18 clases starting. But then everyone begins to get better and wants to get faster and a $189 car becomes a $700 one, Should have bought a competive 1/12 pan car for that. The comes in brand changes/ Back in the day, it was Trinity, Tamyia, Losi and AE. It would take another 30 bands to list all the new lables selling "race cars". Not to mention the after market choices for tires, hardware, electronics ect.

2. Cost is way too high. LHS have to charge a higher price because the will end up with dead stock inventory. Then comes in the cost of good RC cars. I love graphite, but really, I think chassis could be made from 3mm G10. That would knock off an easy $100 per kit and prevent the dreaded dead short on battery packs. Save the graphite for things like shock bulkheads. Also tracks need to set firm rules. I would love to race at a track that had 13.5 brushless class that said you are allowed 3 packs, and 6 tire sets and two motors for each season. So no more cutting tires to make a super low rollout, no more zapping a frying a new pack each week, no more overgearing motors just to prove a point. I know races are 5min long, but run it like the 24 hour La Mans Enduro, fast yet conservative.

3. The people in "charge" maybe should find other jobs. R/C is a passion and a business. If they are just there for the weekly paycheck, we have problems. I have been to a few hobby shops where they didn't know jack about the parts they had. I have seen too many race directors piss off racers just to prove who is in charge.

4. Online sales are killing the LHS with cost-of-lost-sales. LHS, there is more to than not having A-arms for 1/12th pan cars, or 4-40 lock nuts. Eventually, people will stop going to a LHS looking for parts they should have, and just go online. So a $3 part just cost a hobby shop $1000's in lifetime sales.

5. If you are really concerned about where you are going to race the next week, get together with others and buy the land and build a track. I live in Missouri and 2 acres of Highway frontage land will cost about $40,000. I can afford the $300 a month mortage on the land, but everyone else will need to chip in for the other things: PORTA POTTY, DRIVERS STAND, GRAVEL for parking, Utility hookup ($10000 for water, sewer, electricity, paved surface?.
trailranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 09:35 PM   #327
Tech Elite
 
Francis M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 4,719
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
There is no simple magical business plan. Except to open in a high volume area such as a Mall where you can get every Tom, Dick and Harry. That throws out racing, and mostly caters to people who will buy a RTR, never to be seen again except to demand the shop fix their car as if it has some type of warranty.

What I see going on here is confusion with the above "Hobby Shop" being used as the example of what a "RC Hobby and Track" should be able to do. They really are two different beasts. We are talking Mom and Pop operations who cant afford those high traffic areas. Who can't offer prices online at any significant discount and be lost in the growing competition online.

Its a whole attitude of economics being argued here. The "buy local" versus "buy cheapest".


I know what you are trying to get across as far as attitude of economics. Beleive it or not I hardly buy online, but my advise to some people that are thinking about opening a shop or track is don't expect it to survive on loyalty alone. Who in thier right business mind would survey a business, figure out that they cannot compete price wise and still open up a shop and track hoping for the best.


There is also a myth that online shops do not have overhead. This simply is not true, shops such as speedtech has a pretty impressive building that isn't free but you don't see him marking up items like its gold.
Francis M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 11:03 PM   #328
Tech Addict
 
stumper1's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 549
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Thumbs down

Quote:
You guys seem to think that the whole business revolves around racers...
I thought this thread was about "race tracks". They generally DO revolve around racers

Quote:
The R/C world really doesn't revolve around R/C racers...really...it doesn't.
Again, I thought the thread was about "race tracks". I guess you missed that.

Quote:
I for one would rather have a viable, price-competitive, well-stocked shop and no track...
As a racer, I'd much rather have a track.

Quote:
Permanant tracks almost always have to have a store to support the bills, thats just a fact of buisiness.
Some tracks have a store to support the racers.

Quote:
TurboJoe, I would like to know how you expect a track/store to stay open without the support of there local racers???
Turbo doesn't care, plain and simple.

Quote:
He didn't tell you or anybody not to support the track.
I agree, however, he does suggest that you are stupid for doing so.

Quote:
Shithead behind counter,
With that attitude, I'd charge an asshole like you double retail.

Quote:
Cmon Joe, that's uncalled for. That has nothing to do with nothing with this thread and I see nowhere people talking about "cheap" in a selfish manner. Instead I see them trying to promote buying from the track in a community minded manner.
Amen. Too bad Turbo won't get it.

Quote:
One has nothing to do with the other...
Untill you're at the track and: cut your last tire before the main, break your last a-arm, run out of traction compound........

I'm in retail and I deal with internet and mega-box store pricing all the time. Yesterday a customer came in and asked how much we charge for an EMG81 guitar pick-up. I told him retail was $124.00 and we would install it for no charge. If he wanted to install it himself, we'd give him 30% off. He acted disgusted by the price and left. 4 hours later he came back. He said if I could match the Mega stores price, he would buy it form me. He had just driven 50 miles round trip to get a better price, but they were out of them. When I asked him what their price was he said $99.99. I asked if it was installed - he said no. I happily aggreed to match their price. You do the math........

Which leads to my question. Hey Turbo, when did you start playing guitar?

Almost forgot.....Shut Up George!
__________________
[COLOR="Lime"]Deric®[/COLOR]
stumper1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 11:16 PM   #329
Tech Fanatic
 
ray3619's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: glendale az
Posts: 999
Default

STUMPER ! if you keep making post like that we wont have turbo joey to laugh at , ray
ray3619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 11:16 PM   #330
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,141
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Fast Cats closing too? :-( That place looks incredible from the pictures.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEWS FLASH Wild Cherry's brushless motor dies Poweredbysbc Northwest Racers 150 06-05-2013 01:33 PM
NEWS FLASH! TILTYARD VS SGRID! Crashhole R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 17 02-25-2009 05:13 AM
2 Indoor R/C tracks under one Roof? [email protected] Racing Forum 2 07-05-2004 03:37 PM
Indoor tracks around the world McLaren Electric On-Road 5 12-14-2003 09:22 AM
Trinity Motor News Flash!!!!! JPHRacer Nitro On-Road 10 12-17-2002 11:57 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:42 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net