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Old 07-06-2007, 03:12 PM   #211
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Okay lets do math even though I suck at it. On the conservative side. Building rent $2500. Utilities $500. Misc. expenses another $500. Divide that by $20 a racer a month based on a 4 week period. You would have to average 44 racers a week just to keep the door open. 44!! Not many tracks are capable of doing that every week. Thats NO profit! Doesn't include labor if they have to have any either. Wow! You'd have to be really rich or really stupid to open a track huh?lol
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:30 PM   #212
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Personally I think the Pro Series is harming the RC industry. I've done it. I prepare weeks in advance for that big race and don't go to my local track trying to save alittle money and then after the race it just doesn't seem like a local is that much fun.
I've made this point on many occasions and different boards and meetings.

Too often racers get caught up in the NEED to COMPETE on a larger level - which causes them to chase the 'BIG RACES' which can kill local programs faster than anything else...

On the same note - LOCAL track promoters trying to cash in on that idea - try to hold/have their OWN 'big race' events...which also seem to cost them racers for the weekly 'local' program

Guys do take a weekend off from the CLUB race to save a few bucks toward going to the BIG ONE (How many guys take close to a FULL MONTH off to get ready for and re-coop from the SNOWBIRDS or the IIC?)

Those are events that a lot of guys want to make sure they get to experience at least ONCE -

But, how does the local track keep getting NEW faces at the track to help replace the ones who become travellers and start showing up really sporatically.

You gotta give the 'locals' a reason to keep coming back to YOUR track - instead of missing 1/2 of the local club races to travel to the others (AS A PROMOTER of a TRAVELLING SHOW - I have to rely on the TRAVELLERS - so this sounds like I'm trying to cut my OWN throat)

But - the more STRONG LOCAL programs there are - the MORE Racers we have to pull from for the travellers.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:39 PM   #213
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I race for fun not for money or fame.
We have a local track that has moved several times as it is just outside in the parking lot. Most business' are closed on Sunday so our track can be just about anywhere there is a decent parking lot. The tack equipment is owned by Finish line racing which does not have a shop.

My LHS does not carry anything for my car as I run an older HPI that I bought on ebay for 100 bucks or so. The hobby shops have never lasted long here. The one that we have now is owned by peoele who own another business and work their 40 a week at the other business. LHS is open form 5-8PM Tues through Friday and all day Saturday unless it is a race weekend then they are open on Sunday. I do purchase some things at my LHS but not much, even with shipping I can get most things 20%- 50% cheaper than I can get it there. And I have found some great deals on ebay for things and pay about 1/3 of what it would be at tower even

Because my car is so old I have to order everything online cause the LHS can't get new stuff from the manufacture. I have found that many items that I need can be had very cheap as, there is not much demand for them. Most people that have a TC like mine have broken them so bad that they are in a closet collecting duct. I do also make custom parts form Aluminum versus buying a CF this or CF that. Stronger and will last way longer.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:46 PM   #214
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Okay the conservative side. Building rent $2500.l

That is a funny one , sorry .....

more like $4500 to $5500

That's conservative....
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:35 PM   #215
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I know it was conservative but I didn't want the track owners to die of a heart attack when they realized how much money they loose.lol I also didn't figure in the lap counting system with personals. Chaching! Of course I remember the days when we counted by hand and we still had fun!
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Old 07-07-2007, 12:16 AM   #216
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Try $8000 or more a month for rent and you start to see what tracks are up against in this area.
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:04 PM   #217
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Thats just crazy! $8000? No way you can stay open with overhead like that. We've rented indoor buildings at the fairgrounds before and it was a break even venture. Of course we only kept it open during the winter months and went back outside during the warm weather. I also rented one of the livestock open air barns one year for outdoor offroad racing and it worked perfect until the fair. Buildings don't have to be brand new. Some older rundown buildings can work if the owners are willing to have someone in there cheap. It will usually lower their insurance just to have someone in there. Don't give up looking and don't stop racing.
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:55 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
That is a funny one , sorry .....

more like $4500 to $5500

That's conservative....
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Try $8000 or more a month for rent and you start to see what tracks are up against in this area.
I had an interesting conversation with a hobby shop owner last week. And a successful hobby shop at that. He went over what he lays out in overhead every month. Of his ten biggest expenses, rent was like fifth! Insurance, utilities, and advertising were bigger nuts.

And I'm one of the few people who think a track can make a profit.
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:58 PM   #219
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Thats just crazy! $8000? No way you can stay open with overhead like that. We've rented indoor buildings at the fairgrounds before and it was a break even venture. Of course we only kept it open during the winter months and went back outside during the warm weather. I also rented one of the livestock open air barns one year for outdoor offroad racing and it worked perfect until the fair. Buildings don't have to be brand new. Some older rundown buildings can work if the owners are willing to have someone in there cheap. It will usually lower their insurance just to have someone in there. Don't give up looking and don't stop racing.
Then you run into the problem that no one can find you.

It's a catch-22. You can't afford a building with high visibility, and you can't make it with a cheap building with no visibility.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:53 PM   #220
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SWTour:

My suggestion was to offer $20 for 2 classes, which is cheaper or equal to what a lot of tracks charge now ($15 + $10 or $15 + $5.) If you have racers that truly can't afford to race for $20, they can volunteer at the track and get a racing credit.
As one of the po' racers. I would say that could be an option.

I'm not sure how you vehicle people can justify the continued cost rise to pay gas, then on top, a higher race fee. Thats simply going to make it that much more difficult to justify racing to new people. Especially since it seems the income "standard" of whom can afford to race has risen dramatically and will continue to do so. The logical but narcissistic and eventually self defeating argument about if one cant afford to race, one shouldn't, misses the point of trying to at least keep if not grow the racing section of the hobby.

Personally, I don't think race fees should raise, but racing itself should change. Hence why I love and continue to believe the new smaller 1/28th and 1/18th tracks are the future. Energy prices continue to grow, and middle class incomes are lowering to levels more inline with other first world nations. This is going to effect the distance people are willing to travel and equipment they can afford to buy/take. Tear apart tracks, baseless, smaller permanent tracks, or even the new online "beat the clock" personal RCP will grow as the current large scale race scene diminishes to only Upper Middle Class and above.
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Old 07-07-2007, 03:54 PM   #221
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"Then you run into the problem that no one can find you.

It's a catch-22. You can't afford a building with high visibility, and you can't make it with a cheap building with no visibility."


Good point one of the many contradictions of conflicts.
Another one is less expensive for the racer more sales for hobby store.

For example lets say all the drivers agreed to run box stock $99.00 Mini-t RTRs. The track owner also put lots of foam rubber padding at key places around the track to protect the cars suspension.
I think the drivers could have alot of fun, the racing would be very competitive, it would be very easy for new people to participate and it would be incredibly cheap of the drivers.
The problem for the industry and the shop would be no profit from the sale of aftermarket parts.
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Old 07-07-2007, 04:03 PM   #222
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(sorry multiple tabs via firefox mistake copy post. Please delete.)
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Old 07-07-2007, 06:43 PM   #223
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Doesn't have to be high visibility. B&L Hobbies and Raceway is outside the city limits. They have run a very successful program for over 10 yrs now. Outdoor track with a small well stocked hobby shop. Its the people that run it and word of mouth that makes or breaks a track. They charge 10 for the first class and 5 for every class after that. Only 5 bucks for novice drivers because they want to help them enjoy the hobby not break them. They average 50+ racers on a fri. night.(only night they run) Why is it successful? They run the same program week to week. Hobby shop has got what the racers want and the beginners get plenty of help making the right choices. I've moved away from that area and I wish we had half the racers they draw. My point to this is the owner started his little hobby shop in his garage. Put all his money from that back in the business and didn't draw from it. Moved to a very small metal building and put a track in to have a place for his customers to run on. He kept his head and never went overboard. It worked because he has the passion for the hobby.
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:31 PM   #224
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Try $8000 or more a month for rent and you start to see what tracks are up against in this area.
As Richard Dawson of Family Feud use to say "Survey says! Uh Uh, wrong answer, try again". The local track's lease was up in April and now on a month to month.

Rumour is that to renew a longterm lease on the 23,000+ square feet building. New ownership of the building is asking $1 per sqare foot. Yes this is true and not an inflated figure. This is the main reason for the great racing mecca of California known as SoCal Raceway is now on its last leg. They can possibly stay open for a year on a month to month under the old lease but will probably fold in the next month or so. Hardly a cake walk huh.

Alot of big names and great car platforms have come and gone through SoCal. I've seen TC5s, Pro4s, JRXSs and other great cars tested there befor they wer to be released to the public. Names such as Brian Kinwald, Josh Numan, Rick Howhart, and Barry Baker just to name a few. It is hard to see the place now coming to an end but I still have fun there. All good things come to an end sooner or later.
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:06 AM   #225
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Another top spot gone :

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