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Old 06-25-2007, 05:33 AM   #1
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Default Novak XBR Sport/EX 13.5 Brushless System

Has any one tested this system for performance compared to the gtb / 13.5 SS with the old rotor.

is there anything diff in performance?

really?
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Old 06-25-2007, 06:01 AM   #2
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yes the bonded rotor will thermo at around 180 degrees. You gear ratios overall will need to be in the mid 5's.After they themo a couple of times you'll need to replace it.After that just get a sintered rotor (it drops right in) and your ready. Then you can go lower in the overal gear ratio and not worry about thermoing.Recommend to go around 5.00 for outdoors.
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Old 06-25-2007, 06:18 AM   #3
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BULLFROG,

If I read this question correctly it's

HAS ANYONE RUN THE XBR/NON SINTERED 13.5 in comparison with a GTB/13.5 NON SINTERED (BOTH using NON sintered motors)

And asking if there is a performance difference between the two speed controls.

The XBR looks to have good performance features, including ease of switching to LIPO or NIMH..and/or Brushed to Brushless, but I've seen no real test data on it yet.

(BTW, if you CAN run sintered..RUN sintered if you can afford it, but I've got 4 non sintered B/L's ...one 13.5, 3 4300's. First several runs on each while I was looking for car setup etc. I noticed no difference on these - but once I get dialed in a bit - 20+degrees cooler on the sintered (Never thermalled the others, but they did get to 180+ a couple times)
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:42 PM   #4
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BULLFROG,

If I read this question correctly it's

HAS ANYONE RUN THE XBR/NON SINTERED 13.5 in comparison with a GTB/13.5 NON SINTERED (BOTH using NON sintered motors)

And asking if there is a performance difference between the two speed controls.

The XBR looks to have good performance features, including ease of switching to LIPO or NIMH..and/or Brushed to Brushless, but I've seen no real test data on it yet.

(BTW, if you CAN run sintered..RUN sintered if you can afford it, but I've got 4 non sintered B/L's ...one 13.5, 3 4300's. First several runs on each while I was looking for car setup etc. I noticed no difference on these - but once I get dialed in a bit - 20+degrees cooler on the sintered (Never thermalled the others, but they did get to 180+ a couple times)

Thanks, yeah thats what i meant, as here in Australia you are not allowed the sintered rotor.

also was wondering if the moter was down on performance to as it is a EX 13.5 super sport version.

by reading about both the esc & motors specs, they sound as if they are the same in performance.
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSI123 View Post
Thanks, yeah thats what i meant, as here in Australia you are not allowed the sintered rotor.

also was wondering if the moter was down on performance to as it is a EX 13.5 super sport version.

by reading about both the esc & motors specs, they sound as if they are the same in performance.
If you want to compare them apple to apple, GTB with old style 13.5 motor is better performance then XBR wtih old style 13.5 motor. By just comparing their ESC spec (you can find them both on Novak site)

However, those number probably cannot be tell by the actual on hand performance...what is the different (in lap time or speed) between On-Resistance: 0.00040 ohms (GTB) and On-Resistance 0.0012 ohms (XBR)....

Cheaper is always better...especially you have to run stock 13.5 not the PRO version....and yes, there are big (hugh) different between sintered and non-sintered...
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:03 PM   #6
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Correct, at my local track we do allow the 13.5 Bl to run with brushed stocks in our stock touring car class, but only using the bonded rotor(we had to make that compromise to be allowed to run them, otherwise it wouldn't have been voted in by the racers, had a lot of debate over it), & I use it quite a bit myself, & yes, it does make noticably less power than it does with the sintered rotor, plus it runs hotter & can go into thermal shutdown if you overgear it even a little. But once you get it right, it's EXTREMELY close to a brushed stock in performance ontrack(I know the wattage numbers from Novak make it seem like the 13.5 should have a big edge whether you use bonded or sintered rotors, but in the car it's a different story). And for me the biggest reason I like using it is because it's so CONSISTENT from run to run, so once it's dialed in I can just focus all my attention on chassis setup & driving, no worries about when a given motor's gonna need to be rebuilt or just flat die on me(& at my age I NEED to focus all the attention I can on driving, lol). If you're thinking about trying it, I'd go for it, I believe it IS the future of racing & once you adjust to using it, you'll wonder why you waited....
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:37 PM   #7
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the on resistance refered to in this thread is per phase & there is 3, time that by 3 and see what you get!!!!

its a trick
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:27 PM   #8
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LOSI - the XBR version of the 13.5 IS the old 13.5 motor with a NEW target market. They've changed the center ring w/ the XBR color, and the ring at the rear endbell has a color stripe indicating which wind motor it is. Other than that it will perform just like the ORIGINAL 13.5 non-sintered...because it IS the original 13.5 NON sintered.

There is a small amount of performance advantage to the GTB's from what I hear and read, but there are some EASE of use, setup and functionality to the XBR including the built in LIPO cut off, and ability to switch from BRUSHED to BRUSHLESS easier than the GTB.

I have several friends who are just getting into the B/L scene and have opted for the XBR, but we can use sintered, so they just bought the ESC and added the PRO motor.

(SIDE NOTE: NOVAK OFFERS reman'd original GTB's on their SHOPATRON at their web site for I believe $129.99 w/ WARRANTY)
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:12 AM   #9
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The information in most other 13.5 threads seems to be focused on the "Pro" (sintered) version, and so I will ask a question here about the bonded version...

I have mine installed in my sedan for racing with the local club, and as others have noted, the sintered isn't allowed so that the 13.5 runs more like a brushed stock motor...

I made the mistake of starting with gearing from one of the other threads (sintered) and that did not work at all -- I didn't thermal, but I did get too hot. Now I keep gearing down and the temps stay too high. In my XXX-S I've gone from about a 5.0 FDR to around 5.8 (rubber tires on a small parking lot track setup at the local HobbyTown -- roughly 8 second laps!) and I'm still temping around 170+! I'll gear down some more, but just wondering if other bonded/standard 13.5 sedan racers had recommendations...?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfrahm View Post
The information in most other 13.5 threads seems to be focused on the "Pro" (sintered) version, and so I will ask a question here about the bonded version...

I have mine installed in my sedan for racing with the local club, and as others have noted, the sintered isn't allowed so that the 13.5 runs more like a brushed stock motor...

I made the mistake of starting with gearing from one of the other threads (sintered) and that did not work at all -- I didn't thermal, but I did get too hot. Now I keep gearing down and the temps stay too high. In my XXX-S I've gone from about a 5.0 FDR to around 5.8 (rubber tires on a small parking lot track setup at the local HobbyTown -- roughly 8 second laps!) and I'm still temping around 170+! I'll gear down some more, but just wondering if other bonded/standard 13.5 sedan racers had recommendations...?

Thanks in advance.
Sounds to me like you're on the right track, but I'd keep going shorter. At my local track, I started using FDR's around 5.6, which seemed ok at first, but as time has passed(& the surface has changed), I've been going shorter & shorter, now at about 6.14(& I'm gonna try a 6.31 this weekend, tried it at another track & liked it), & generally my temps have been in the same range, I've just had to do it to stay in that range. Something else you might try is use Novak's heat sink(the one that takes the place of the purple or gold band in the middle of the can), & right before you're up to race, use some freezing spray on the heat sink(make it frosty), that should keep the motor cool enough to get through the race in good shape(used it over the weekend that way & got after-run temps of about 136-140 F).....
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:40 PM   #11
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Thanks! Sounds like I'm headed in the right direction. I'm an old diehard brushed motor guy (Turbo Dyno 45, etc.) and I'm used to having dyno data to gear off of and brushless really has be starting over -- but I like the zero maintenance idea. I can race all day with my sedan and never worry about the motor, etc...

I've also thought about adding a fan to blow air over the motor, but I think that's not a big help for a motor with no cooling vents, etc.. I may consider the Novak heat sink idea instead...

The wild thing is that the motor always has performed well no matter how badly I geared it -- it would get HOT, but still pull for the full 5 minutes! A brushed motor would have fallen off and gone terribly flat...
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:43 PM   #12
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Yup, that's kind of a mixed bag, but I like that it keeps pulling right up to the end(even when it thermals). I can also tell you that the Novak heat sink DEFINITELY helps, I've been temping both the normal parts of the can & the heat sink itself, & noticed that the heat sink gets as much as 20 F hotter than the rest of the can, so it's DEFINITELY doing its job.......
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